Steroids in football: do you care?

[Doyers y Esleigher]

I've played devils advocate on the steroids issue in the past and even ripped on Romo big time (though my personal issue with talking up Romo had more to do with the fact that he was basically a one-year player, but treated like a Raider legend), but in the end, I feel like baseball has become the scapegoat for steroids and NFL fans are in full-on denial mode.

So where do you come out: do you actually care about steroids?

I don't. I get the feeling 50% of the guys in the league wouldn't be able to stay on the field without them. I get the feeling that with new rules favoring athleticism over football skill, steroids will run even more rampant than ever before.

[BigPrimo]

I've played devils advocate on the steroids issue in the past and even ripped on Romo big time (though my personal issue with talking up Romo had more to do with the fact that he was basically a one-year player, but treated like a Raider legend), but in the end, I feel like baseball has become the scapegoat for steroids and NFL fans are in full-on denial mode.

So where do you come out: do you actually care about steroids?

I don't. I get the feeling 50% of the guys in the league wouldn't be able to stay on the field without them. I get the feeling that with new rules favoring athleticism over football skill, steroids will run even more rampant than ever before.

in football i think they are used more for injuries than so for Performance. I mean with out Cortisone shots how many players would actually be able to stay on the field? I see no difference in any substance if you take it to stay on the field.

Baseball on the other hand is all about performance so its different. But If i knew a guy in any sport was taking it purely for rehab from an injury I actually dont care one bit what sport it is as long as it was under a doctors care. All this sneaking around shit with these different over seas drugs is what makes it seem so devious.

[GenRaider]

I've played devils advocate on the steroids issue in the past and even ripped on Romo big time (though my personal issue with talking up Romo had more to do with the fact that he was basically a one-year player, but treated like a Raider legend), but in the end, I feel like baseball has become the scapegoat for steroids and NFL fans are in full-on denial mode.

So where do you come out: do you actually care about steroids?

I don't. I get the feeling 50% of the guys in the league wouldn't be able to stay on the field without them. I get the feeling that with new rules favoring athleticism over football skill, steroids will run even more rampant than ever before.

A majority of guys in the NFL and MLB are juiced. But from my perspective steroid is not something new; players were juicing back in the 70s and 80s and there wasn't a media cry.

What a person does with his body is up to the indidvidual. Taking steriods does not improve coordination or give you the ability to reconize a major in a defensive scheme. I don't really care...

[BigPrimo]

A majority of guys in the NFL and MLB are juiced. But from my perspective steroid is not something new; players were juicing back in the 70s and 80s and there wasn't a media cry.

What a person does with his body is up to the indidvidual. Taking steriods does not improve coordination or give you the ability to reconize a major in a defensive scheme. I don't really care...

the deal is you can get rich off books you write off player who are using steroids now. Only a matter of time before a Manny book comes out.

[JRaider17]

It doesn't really bother me... I mean you can't teach stuff. In the MLB yes it may make you a little stronger, but if you can't hit the ball, steroids won't help you.


In the NFL will it make you stronger and bigger? Yes probably, but like Gen said you can't teach some things.

[TAPE]

I dont care at all.... the NFL has turned a blind eye to it and so have th efans... The rest of the fans who think that there are players who dont use juice are just plain fucking idiots.

I dont see why there is a double standard with baseball..... The old timers need to let go...

[Doyers y Esleigher]

the deal is you can get rich off books you write off player who are using steroids now. Only a matter of time before a Manny book comes out.

I'll be really shocked if...

1. There wasn't a Manny book due after his retirement anyway, as he is one of the greatest and strangest players ever.

2. It isn't penned by Bill Simmons.

[Doyers y Esleigher]

Oh and Primo - you're wrong about baseball. A single baseball game doesn't typically take a lot out of you, but a 162 game season is murderous. Most of these guys who took roids couldn't keep themselves together to have a productive second half of the season. Trust me, if it had anything to do with performance, 90% of the guys outed on these lists wouldn't be crappy players.

[BigPrimo]

Oh and Primo - you're wrong about baseball. A single baseball game doesn't typically take a lot out of you, but a 162 game season is murderous. Most of these guys who took roids couldn't keep themselves together to have a productive second half of the season. Trust me, if it had anything to do with performance, 90% of the guys outed on these lists wouldn't be crappy players. most where crappy anyhow. Its been said over and over that guys were taking it to keep their jobs. IF player A took it or was just naturally better than player B Then player B had to take steroids so his game was somewhat on par with player A!!!

[cheapshotartist]

A majority of guys in the NFL and MLB are juiced. But from my perspective steroid is not something new; players were juicing back in the 70s and 80s and there wasn't a media cry.

What a person does with his body is up to the indidvidual. Taking steriods does not improve coordination or give you the ability to reconize a major in a defensive scheme. I don't really care...

Agreed :csa:

It doesn't really bother me... I mean you can't teach stuff. In the MLB yes it may make you a little stronger, but if you can't hit the ball, steroids won't help you.




In the NFL will it make you stronger and bigger? Yes probably, but like Gen said you can't teach some things.

It's their life and body so they can do what they want. :csa:

[Doyers y Esleigher]

most where crappy anyhow. Its been said over and over that guys were taking it to keep their jobs. IF player A took it or was just naturally better than player B Then player B had to take steroids so his game was somewhat on par with player A!!!

Right, but a lot of that has to do with how a player is projected to perform in X amount of at-bats. Take a player like Milton Bradley: great eye, solid pop in the bat, solid defense, good speed, switch hitter... can't promise more than 100 or so games. Because of that, a guy who could be making $15-$17 million a year long term is getting 3 years at $26 million over the life. No two hitters are ever equal in my opinion, so I don't believe simple strength would get one guy over the other.

[silver & black]

I really don't care. Baseball, Football, Basketball, whatever sport. If the athletes feel they want/need to subject themselves to the risks and their future well being/health, so be it.

I also feel that all pro sports should allow the use of steroids for injury recovery under strict medical supervision. If the league and the team know a player is under supervision while recovering from an injury, I don't see that it could be considered as cheating or gaining an edge. These athletes are highly paid by their respective teams, and in some cases, are integral pieces in the success or failure of said team. If steroids can help an athlete recover from an injury faster, and get them back on the field/court in a shorter time frame, it should be allowed.

[BigPrimo]

Right, but a lot of that has to do with how a player is projected to perform in X amount of at-bats. Take a player like Milton Bradley: great eye, solid pop in the bat, solid defense, good speed, switch hitter... can't promise more than 100 or so games. Because of that, a guy who could be making $15-$17 million a year long term is getting 3 years at $26 million over the life. No two hitters are ever equal in my opinion, so I don't believe simple strength would get one guy over the other.

Thats where "mainstream" commercialism comes to play. A guy no matter how good he really is, with Str can hit a homerun and as you know this is where corperate america markets everything.

Example. Mark McGuire. When all said and done in reality all he could really do is hit homeruns, take his str away and hes just an avg big league hitter. Im not saying he doesnt have a fast bat and good hand eye but who at this league really doesnt, and probably a decent first baseman at best. No juice, no str, no homeruns, no mainstream success for him or baseball. Think about it he was hitting these homeruns in Oakland with Jose and no one really cared until baseball was making a comeback and he and Sammy were doing it in front of america and all america wanted was homeruns fuck the rest of the rest of the game. Sammy is another overatted basebal player who had success because of the infatuation with homeruns. i dunno im tired and rambling.

[Big Game Geoff]

Using steroids is cheating and I don't condone cheating...

[Big O Dick]

If they wanna play big ball with small balls I dont care but I think it would cause a ripple effect and almost encourage players to get juiced just to compete with the size and power of the other players....but agree, roids wont raise your football IQ.

They should have the all-steroid olympics like on SNL where the guy ripped his arms off trying to deadlift. Classic shit! :laughing

[TAPE]

Using steroids is cheating and I don't condone cheating...

Do you pay for tickets to watch Raiders games???

Then you sure as hell do.

[Big Game Geoff]

Do you pay for tickets to watch Raiders games???

Then you sure as hell do.


To answer your question, yes.

Don't put words in my mouth. There are a lot of reasons I go up to Oakland, but steroids isn't one of them.

Capiche?..

[TAPE]

To answer your question, yes.

Don't put words in my mouth. There are a lot of reasons I go up to Oakland, but steroids isn't one of them.

Capiche?..

Intense, physically elite and genetic defying athletic prowess on the football field is why you go up to Oakland, right?

These are results of steroid use, among other things..

So then if it is cheating.... the whole NFL is cheating?

[Big Game Geoff]

Intense, physically elite and genetic defying athletic prowess on the football field is why you go up to Oakland, right?

These are results of steroid use, among other things..

So then if it is cheating.... the whole NFL is cheating?

I don't pretend to know who's juicing and who isn't, unlike others. If they are, then shame on them.

I stand by my first post...

[TAPE]

I don't pretend to know who's juicing and who isn't, unlike others. If they are, then shame on them.

I stand by my first post...


Funny....

I bet you dont pretend to know where your tax money is going either...

[Big Game Geoff]

Funny....

I bet you dont pretend to know where your tax money is going either...

The only thing funny here is the way you care so much about my posts...

[Doyers y Esleigher]

Thats where "mainstream" commercialism comes to play. A guy no matter how good he really is, with Str can hit a homerun and as you know this is where corperate america markets everything.

That's not true. Hitting a home run is the hardest thing to do in all of professional sports. Ask any scientist.

Example. Mark McGuire. When all said and done in reality all he could really do is hit homeruns, take his str away and hes just an avg big league hitter.

That's not true. Look at Alfonso Soriano, he isn't big and beefy and he hits 25-40 home runs a year. Strength doesn't do ANYTHING for most players. Look at the names on the Mitchell Report, most of them sucked and couldn't hit any home runs or line drives at all. Alex Sanchez, Tim Laker, FP Santangelo, etc. etc. etc.

Baseball players didn't even have weight lifting programs until the mid-90's. So if all it takes to hit a HR is strength, why weren't there more big HR hitters? Hitting home runs and line drives is 90% based on a players' swing.

Im not saying he doesnt have a fast bat and good hand eye but who at this league really doesnt, and probably a decent first baseman at best. No juice, no str, no homeruns, no mainstream success for him or baseball.

By the way, you are completely full of shit if you think all McGwire did was hit home runs. He had a career on-base percentage of .394 and a career slugging percentage of .588. He possessed a great eye and hit more home runs than any first baseman in the history of the game.

BTW, stop with this crap about "if he had no strength." You know nothing about baseball if you think swing mechanics aren't 90% of hitting a home run.

Think about it he was hitting these homeruns in Oakland with Jose and no one really cared until baseball was making a comeback and he and Sammy were doing it in front of america and all america wanted was homeruns fuck the rest of the rest of the game. Sammy is another overatted basebal player who had success because of the infatuation with homeruns. i dunno im tired and rambling.

Please just stop talking about baseball. Ever.

[TAPE]

Id just like to add Hill steroids are all the difference between 45 home runs a year and 60...

How many of A-Rods, Bonds, McGwires, Canseco, Sosa and others 60 odd home runs would have been mere doubles without 600mg of some Clear running through them?

Eye coordination and swing mechanics are what will let you hit a ball better than other athletes. Combine that with some test and deca and you can figure out the rest.

[Doyers y Esleigher]

Right, but my argument is that athletes back in the early days didn't have the same challenges physically. Travel schedules weren't insane and they never had to go more than a few hundred miles to play. Games were rarely at night and there were no playoffs. The best from the AL played the best from the NL and that was the season.

The guys who took roids and hit home runs were guys who would have hit them anyway if they'd been able to maintain their bodies for 162 games. They weren't adding to their potential as much as they were maximizing it.

[TAPE]

Right, but my argument is that athletes back in the early days didn't have the same challenges physically. Travel schedules weren't insane and they never had to go more than a few hundred miles to play. Games were rarely at night and there were no playoffs. The best from the AL played the best from the NL and that was the season.

The guys who took roids and hit home runs were guys who would have hit them anyway if they'd been able to maintain their bodies for 162 games. They weren't adding to their potential as much as they were maximizing it.

Agreed

But not simply because it preserved their bodies in regards to the rigors of a 162 game season...

Steroids = Strength and lean mass gains...

Strength + Lean Mass Gains + Natural hand/eye coordination and Mechanics (contact) = farther hit balls!

[Sonny Cheeba]

It doesn't really bother me. Steroids in Olympic events are a little different though. There are in fact clean participants, and when you're in a strictly one-on-one competition, it has to be a level playing field.

If I had to guess, I'd say at least 50% of today's NFL players are on some form of PEDs.

[BigPrimo]

That's not true. Hitting a home run is the hardest thing to do in all of professional sports. Ask any scientist.



That's not true. Look at Alfonso Soriano, he isn't big and beefy and he hits 25-40 home runs a year. Strength doesn't do ANYTHING for most players. Look at the names on the Mitchell Report, most of them sucked and couldn't hit any home runs or line drives at all. Alex Sanchez, Tim Laker, FP Santangelo, etc. etc. etc.

Baseball players didn't even have weight lifting programs until the mid-90's. So if all it takes to hit a HR is strength, why weren't there more big HR hitters? Hitting home runs and line drives is 90% based on a players' swing.



By the way, you are completely full of shit if you think all McGwire did was hit home runs. He had a career on-base percentage of .394 and a career slugging percentage of .588. He possessed a great eye and hit more home runs than any first baseman in the history of the game.

BTW, stop with this crap about "if he had no strength." You know nothing about baseball if you think swing mechanics aren't 90% of hitting a home run.



Please just stop talking about baseball. Ever.

McGwire was juiced outta his mind along with Jose Canseco. No steroids no homeruns. You can say what you want about mechanics, eye hand cordination but the fact is we will never know because he was on em.

And what i was talking about was from a casual fan perspective not a purist perspective. The bottom line is casual fans went to see McGwire to see homeruns hit period.

[Doyers y Esleigher]

McGwire was juiced outta his mind along with Jose Canseco. No steroids no homeruns. You can say what you want about mechanics, eye hand cordination but the fact is we will never know because he was on em.

Once again, you are simply WRONG. What you're saying is grossly unscientific. You clearly have no idea how difficult it is to hit line drives and home runs. You are showing 0 basic understanding of the game of baseball.

[Big O Dick]

McGwire was juiced outta his mind along with Jose Canseco. No steroids no homeruns. You can say what you want about mechanics, eye hand cordination but the fact is we will never know because he was on em.
And what i was talking about was from a casual fan perspective not a purist perspective. The bottom line is casual fans went to see McGwire to see homeruns hit period.

I played baseball since I was 5 so I know how hard it is to be a good consistent hitter...that being said, I used to play with this guy in high school who was a lot smaller than me but would jack homeruns like nothing...meanwhile, I was always knocking line drives, doubles, triples, once in a while Id get enough lift for a bomb.

Its not ALWAYS about size and strength in baseball but it damn sure helps hit the ball 460+ if you can put a solid bat on it.

[chitown]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/ChitownR8dr/image-3.php.jpg