View Full Version : Linebackers.
cheapshotartist
04-05-2009, 06:11 AM
As we all know we have quick, fast LB's who are made for pass defense and we are still one LB short with Morrison, Howard and someone else. IMHO Morrison is not a good MLB he is more suited to play outside. He can't get off blocks and is a very weak tackler. Morrison has heart and plays hard but he does not have the strength or talent to be our starting MLB IMHO. Howard is a faster Morrison he has good speed but can't play the run to save his life. We do not yet have the third LB and IR Sam is not the answer. There are several good LB's in this draft and we would be wise to draft a real NFL type MLB and a run stuffing strong side LB. When a FB can handle your MLB one on one you will have problems against the run. Our DL can't keep the offensive linemen from reaching our LB's but our LB's still have to make plays. Besides INT's our LB's seldom make any plays. We must upgrade our LB corps and plug a real MLB in the middle.
:csa:
JRaider17
04-05-2009, 06:16 AM
Agreed, Howard and Morrison are good to defend the pass, but when asked to shed blocks they can not. We need first a D-Line to take up blockers so they have a free lane to the RB. We also need that true LB, one that can tackle and shed blocks. I think your right when you say move Morrison outside. I like him alot, but he is just not that true MLB we need. Draft a MLB, move him to the outside.
silver & black
04-05-2009, 06:24 AM
I have critisized Morrison for the same reasons. In his defense: if the D line was better, he may perform better, but I still don't think he is the dominant MLB we need. I'm not saying he can't play, or that I think he needs to go... just that he is not the answer at MLB.
JRaider17
04-05-2009, 06:26 AM
I have critisized Morrison for the same reasons. In his defense: if the D line was better, he may perform better, but I still don't think he is the dominant MLB we need. I'm not saying he can't play, or that I think he needs to go... just that he is not the answer at MLB.
Well the line effects LBs a lot. Just look at Ray Lewis before Ngata. He was not the same, he was still good but not the same. He told the Ravens to get a tackle, and now look.
silver & black
04-05-2009, 06:36 AM
Well the line effects LBs a lot. Just look at Ray Lewis before Ngata. He was not the same, he was still good but not the same. He told the Ravens to get a tackle, and now look.
I agree. The D line is not good, and that affects the play into the secondary. Unfortunately, the owner seems to see it just the opposit... but that is another can of worms altogether. :D
cheapshotartist
04-05-2009, 07:04 AM
I agree. The D line is not good, and that affects the play into the secondary. Unfortunately, the owner seems to see it just the opposit... but that is another can of worms altogether. :D
Word! Al builds his defense from the secondary to the DL while the rest of the NFL builds from the DL back. That's why we suck!
:csa:
dirt williams
04-05-2009, 10:19 AM
As we all know we have quick, fast LB's who are made for pass defense and we are still one LB short with Morrison, Howard and someone else. IMHO Morrison is not a good MLB he is more suited to play outside. He can't get off blocks and is a very weak tackler. Morrison has heart and plays hard but he does not have the strength or talent to be our starting MLB IMHO. Howard is a faster Morrison he has good speed but can't play the run to save his life. We do not yet have the third LB and IR Sam is not the answer. There are several good LB's in this draft and we would be wise to draft a real NFL type MLB and a run stuffing strong side LB. When a FB can handle your MLB one on one you will have problems against the run. Our DL can't keep the offensive linemen from reaching our LB's but our LB's still have to make plays. Besides INT's our LB's seldom make any plays. We must upgrade our LB corps and plug a real MLB in the middle.
:csa:
I agree uncle thug hugger :2guns
This might be why Al suprises everyone and picks Maualuga @ #7.....although I'd rather see Al trade #7 to Philly for #21 & #28.
As we all know we have quick, fast LB's who are made for pass defense and we are still one LB short with Morrison, Howard and someone else. IMHO Morrison is not a good MLB he is more suited to play outside. He can't get off blocks and is a very weak tackler. Morrison has heart and plays hard but he does not have the strength or talent to be our starting MLB IMHO. Howard is a faster Morrison he has good speed but can't play the run to save his life. We do not yet have the third LB and IR Sam is not the answer. There are several good LB's in this draft and we would be wise to draft a real NFL type MLB and a run stuffing strong side LB. When a FB can handle your MLB one on one you will have problems against the run. Our DL can't keep the offensive linemen from reaching our LB's but our LB's still have to make plays. Besides INT's our LB's seldom make any plays. We must upgrade our LB corps and plug a real MLB in the middle.
:csa:
Both of your defensive analysis have been spot on accurate.
No matter how you scheme it, some of these guys are out of position with respect to the personell on the D line, particularly Morrison. He might be able to get away with playing Mike if we had a true two gap NT, but we dont, so when the center or guard blows past the Turd, Morrison cant get off his blocks cuz he is undersized.
Then there goes Tom, Dick and Harry no name RB for 13 yds.
Funny thing is, his pops told me last year that he thought his son would be better used on the outside, so there ya have it..
As we all know we have quick, fast LB's who are made for pass defense and we are still one LB short with Morrison, Howard and someone else. IMHO Morrison is not a good MLB he is more suited to play outside. He can't get off blocks and is a very weak tackler. Morrison has heart and plays hard but he does not have the strength or talent to be our starting MLB IMHO. Howard is a faster Morrison he has good speed but can't play the run to save his life. We do not yet have the third LB and IR Sam is not the answer. There are several good LB's in this draft and we would be wise to draft a real NFL type MLB and a run stuffing strong side LB. When a FB can handle your MLB one on one you will have problems against the run. Our DL can't keep the offensive linemen from reaching our LB's but our LB's still have to make plays. Besides INT's our LB's seldom make any plays. We must upgrade our LB corps and plug a real MLB in the middle.
:csa:
Good post CSA.. We do need a real middle line backer, someone who will level running backs and full backs. The middle linebacker doesn't neccessary have to be fast (he's responsible for 1/3 the field), but rather strong and contain the middle of the field for running backs going up the middle. I'm totally with you on getting a real middle linebacker, the middle linebacker should make the most tackles in the game (they will see the most action from the running backs). Then I'd switch Morrison to the weakside and keep Howard on the strong side. IMHO We need faster coverage linebackers for the outside linebacker positions, but it would be a plus if they can contain the run at the same time.
I'd take Crabtree if he's there, if not then I wouldn't mind drafting Ray Maualuga to address this issue.. IMO Raji is a high risk and I also question his IQ if he's going to smoke some damn weed right before the draft, WTF??
Ray Maualuga is a real middle linebacker
LB_RA¹Ð³R
04-05-2009, 02:55 PM
Good Post CSA I agree Morrison should have stayed on the Outside, But i doubt they will move him back to his original position & bring in a MLB..
GenRaider
04-06-2009, 01:10 AM
Need a SLB who can create car collisions with opposing tight ends..
Good post, CSA
cheapshotartist
04-06-2009, 06:43 AM
I agree uncle thug hugger :2guns
This might be why Al suprises everyone and picks Maualuga @ #7.....although I'd rather see Al trade #7 to Philly for #21 & #28.
I agree with two first round picks we could get a top DT AND MLB. :csa:
Need a SLB who can create car collisions with opposing tight ends..
Good post, CSA
Yep. Which is why Kirk does not belong at SLB. Right now we are stuck with him in the middle.
Morrison and Howard are good in zone coverage but Howard cannot cover opposing TE's unless they run fly patterns on him all day. He gets lost anytime his man makes a cut.
Our linebackers are below average. Howard is the only guy i like out of them all and he has many weaknesses. He needs to bulk up. Nnamdi and C. Johnson are stronger than him
cheapshotartist
04-06-2009, 09:22 AM
Yep. Which is why Kirk does not belong at SLB. Right now we are stuck with him in the middle.
Morrison and Howard are good in zone coverage but Howard cannot cover opposing TE's unless they run fly patterns on him all day. He gets lost anytime his man makes a cut.
Our linebackers are below average. Howard is the only guy i like out of them all and he has many weaknesses. He needs to bulk up. Nnamdi and C. Johnson are stronger than him
I agree 24 our LB's are weak at the point of attack and get pushed around. I've seen FB's whip out our MLB one on one time after time. When Lorenzo Neal was still with the Bolts he owned Morrison. If your MLB can't handle a FB your defense will have issues.
:csa:
We have a lot of holes to fill. MLB is definitely one of them. Nice thread, CSA...
I agree 24 our LB's are weak at the point of attack and get pushed around. I've seen FB's whip out our MLB one on one time after time. When Lorenzo Neal was still with the Bolts he owned Morrison. If your MLB can't handle a FB your defense will have issues.
:csa:
Exactly. Im not saying you cant use fiensse backers but to have a roster ful of them is ridiculous. Football is a physical sport. It is not only the DL's responsibility to play strong. I dont expect our backers or any backers except in a 3-4 to handle the DL. But Te's and FB's are the safety's and linebacker's responsibility. For linebackers, the 1st thing I look at is tackling. Pursuit is important but I'll take 3 physical backers who are slow over 3 finesse backers who are fast butget pushed around.
Linebackers first and foremost have to man their gap, and make a forceful tackle. Not drag the ball carrier down like Howard and Ricky Brown do. Our linebackers are not good tacklers. Howard is the only guy who consistetly brings his man down. They are not instinctive. Morrison is the only guy who seems to sometimes be in the right spot, but Howard is learning. I think Jon alston is our most physical linebacker, if he's even still on the roster.
These guys are not disciplned either. They are always out of position. Look at the Texans game how badly Howard and Kirk were biting on playaction. Owen Daniels was wide open on several plays.
All you need is a playfake or a little misdirection and our entire defense doesn't know what to do.
Anothr thing is Howard and Morrison are both WLB's imo. They should not both be playing. I think we should let one of them go when their contract runs out. I vote to keep Howard and let Kirk man the middle til we get someone beter or his contract runs out.
yayarea_raider
04-06-2009, 01:44 PM
Anothr thing is Howard and Morrison are both WLB's imo. They should not both be playing. I think we should let one of them go when their contract runs out. I vote to keep Howard and let Kirk man the middle til we get someone beter or his contract runs out.
Morrison is in the last year of his deal. Howard I think has 2 years left. I disagree about Howard being awful against the run...I saw some improvement towards the end of the season from him there.
There are Wr's that can push Howard around. He is able to get to the ball but i hate that he has to wrap up most of the time. Lay your body into the ballcarrier and take him down! He doesnt take bad angles like Kirk but he still overpursues and doesn't maintain his gap. He is the best lnebacker we have but that is not saying much.
yayarea_raider
04-06-2009, 02:00 PM
He is the best lnebacker we have but that is not saying much.
unfortunately so
Gridiron PIRATE
04-06-2009, 03:39 PM
The DL has a lot to do with exposing the weaknesses of our LBs. That said, with our LB core, i think we need to readdress the fundamentals. The unit plays sloppy (then again our whole squad does at times).
I'm a big Kirk fan but at this point in his career, as well as Howard's, they are not developing into players who "force the line back".
I want to see how they fair in a (hopefully) new scheme that's more aggressive and utilizes their speed.
kyh0mpb
04-06-2009, 05:44 PM
I agree it'd be nice to add someone who can actually shed a block, and hits hard at MLB. With that said, I think what would really help is adding some more beef up front in the interior of the D-line. A lot of our problem against the run lies in the fact that interior lineman always get penetration and are able to move to the 2nd level against us. Kirk isn't the most physical guy, but guards are gonna maul him 9 times out of 10 if they make it past our DT's. Trading for Philly's 2 first rounders may not be a bad idea. But we have no chance at a DT with those 2 picks. The only NT worthy of a 1st rounder is Raji, and he'll be gone before 21, even with his off-field problems right now. I wouldn't be mad at getting a WR and a LB, preferably Clay Mathews or Maualuga, with those 2 picks. Doubt it happens though.
cheapshotartist
04-06-2009, 07:41 PM
We need some mean physical wood bringing LB's. I'm ashamed of these weak hitting LB's we have. Look at some of the LB's who have worn the Silver & Black I bet Matt Millen still hits harder than any LB we have now. We need help!
:csa:
We need some mean physical wood bringing LB's. I'm ashamed of these weak hitting LB's we have. Look at some of the LB's who have worn the Silver & Black I bet Matt Millen still hits harder than any LB we have now. We need help!
:csa:
I agree CSA. We dont have any backers that are remotely physical. That is just plain sad. I think I saw Alston lay down a big hit or 2. Howard had a couple big hits throughout the year. But he will knock someone out one play then drag the ballcarrier down by his ankles the next. If Howard doesn't get a running start and build up momentum then he starts to tackle like a P*ssy! Our SECONDARY minus Huff/Routt is the most physical part of our defense! Nnam and Chris are physical corners. Eugene and Branch can lay the wood pretty well but Eugene has no instincts and Branch gets no playing time. He is still the most instinctive player we have. Find another gunner and stick Tyvon at S. Even Alston is more built like a sfety imo. Our ends, tackles, and backers are all built for speed minus Jay Rich and Terd who is just awful.
el boracho
04-09-2009, 01:41 PM
it would be interesting to see how Kirk and thomas would play with a good physical defensive line...How about a big DT clogging the middle and demanding doubles and a couple of ends that actually can create a pass rush...That would really help these linebackers out...Im not sold on Kirk but hes formitable at times....You cant have probowlers at every dam position but you can have quality players that are very formitable and i feel that Kirk is just that....Yes we can sure upgrade at MLB but we have other more pressing needs....With a DT, DE and another outside LB we would and should do fine....
I think Kirk has good instincts although he still gets caught out of position. Howard relies on all athleticism. They both proved they can be effective blitzers. Especially Howard. He can shoot the gaps like crazy.
yayarea_raider
04-09-2009, 02:12 PM
We need some mean physical wood bringing LB's. I'm ashamed of these weak hitting LB's we have. Look at some of the LB's who have worn the Silver & Black I bet Matt Millen still hits harder than any LB we have now. We need help!
:csa:
Yeah I'm tired of ppl making excuses for Morrison. Howard we should keep though. Morrison is one of the softest MLB's in the league.
Misses tackles, slow to the LOS...shitty tackler.
He's as average as you can get. I say bring in competition. And get a damn NT.
Gridiron PIRATE
04-09-2009, 02:45 PM
Yeah I'm tired of ppl making excuses for Morrison. Howard we should keep though. Morrison is one of the softest MLB's in the league.
Misses tackles, slow to the LOS...shitty tackler.
He's as average as you can get. I say bring in competition. And get a damn NT.
Get some defensive linemen who can pressure the opponent's OL and then gauge Morrison. The same gripes you have about him
misses tackles, slow to the LOS... shitty tackler
are the same things that can be said about Howard. They're basically the same player except Howard is faster.
Not having a good DL is still inexcusable tho, which is why we scrutinize/there's more pressure on the 'backers, esp the MLB.
GenRaider
04-09-2009, 02:52 PM
Our D lacks the physical element which dominated defenses have. We can maybe hide the defencies we have at LINEBACKER if we had an cannibalistic DL that got after the qb non stop and stuffed the run. We need to grab both a pure pass rusher and a run defender in the later part of the draft. And having a SS who can play the pass and run well would help.
cheapshotartist
04-09-2009, 04:27 PM
The defensive line is the key to the whole defense. They set the tone, look at the top defensive teams like the Giants, Steelers, and the Ravens they all have a good defensive line and quick hard hitting LB's. All of these teams have a average secondary because their defensive line can bring the heat and when you throw in a SS/LB blitz all hell breaks loose.
:csa:
yayarea_raider
04-09-2009, 04:32 PM
Get some defensive linemen who can pressure the opponent's OL and then gauge Morrison. The same gripes you have about him
are the same things that can be said about Howard. They're basically the same player except Howard is faster.
Not having a good DL is still inexcusable tho, which is why we scrutinize/there's more pressure on the 'backers, esp the MLB.
Howard showed to me some good strides last year in terms of his run defense. He was meeting backs at the LOS and making successful blitzes.
If the DL gets fixed in front of Morrison, Howard...then there is a chance Morrison can do better. But He just doesn't have good intincts most the time. He's not aggressive, and looked slow to me out there.
He should be the best tackler on the field, and he wasn't. Just watch the TB game again if you have it, he really missed some tackles he shouldn't have.
JRaider17
04-10-2009, 07:58 AM
I think Kirk has good instincts although he still gets caught out of position. Howard relies on all athleticism. They both proved they can be effective blitzers. Especially Howard. He can shoot the gaps like crazy.
When there is a gap... which is hardly ever there. D-Line! :Yep
Howard showed to me some good strides last year in terms of his run defense. He was meeting backs at the LOS and making successful blitzes.
If the DL gets fixed in front of Morrison, Howard...then there is a chance Morrison can do better. But He just doesn't have good intincts most the time. He's not aggressive, and looked slow to me out there.
He should be the best tackler on the field, and he wasn't. Just watch the TB game again if you have it, he really missed some tackles he shouldn't have.
You think Morrison has bad instincts, but Howard's are good? No disrepect but I think you got it twisted. I agree Kirk looks slow very often which is another reason sticking him on the outside makes little sense to me.
yayarea_raider
04-11-2009, 12:28 PM
You think Morrison has bad instincts, but Howard's are good? No disrepect but I think you got it twisted. I agree Kirk looks slow very often which is another reason sticking him on the outside makes little sense to me.
No. Howard was really starting to come along towards the end of the season.
No. Howard was really starting to come along towards the end of the season.
Like when? The Texans game? He bit on every single playfake Houston threw at him. Or the play against tampa where Garcia rolled out to his left and hit clayton? Howard got himself caught in no man's land...Howard uses his athleticism to make plays. He has a long ways to go mentally.
Get some defensive linemen who can pressure the opponent's OL and then gauge Morrison. The same gripes you have about him
are the same things that can be said about Howard. They're basically the same player except Howard is faster.
Not having a good DL is still inexcusable tho, which is why we scrutinize/there's more pressure on the 'backers, esp the MLB.
Morrison misses a helluva lot more tackles than Howard. Kirk takes bad angles and sometimes dives at the ballcarriers feet. Howard gets his body around the ball carrier but sometimes has a gard time taking him down. He tackles with absolutely no force, but most of the time gets the job done.
Basically Howard tackles like a cornerback. Not like a linebacker should. Morrison tackles like Mike Huff sometimes.
iceman4444
04-11-2009, 03:04 PM
As we all know we have quick, fast LB's who are made for pass defense and we are still one LB short with Morrison, Howard and someone else. IMHO Morrison is not a good MLB he is more suited to play outside. He can't get off blocks and is a very weak tackler. Morrison has heart and plays hard but he does not have the strength or talent to be our starting MLB IMHO. Howard is a faster Morrison he has good speed but can't play the run to save his life. We do not yet have the third LB and IR Sam is not the answer. There are several good LB's in this draft and we would be wise to draft a real NFL type MLB and a run stuffing strong side LB. When a FB can handle your MLB one on one you will have problems against the run. Our DL can't keep the offensive linemen from reaching our LB's but our LB's still have to make plays. Besides INT's our LB's seldom make any plays. We must upgrade our LB corps and plug a real MLB in the middle.
:csa:
I agree totally; I think the Raiders have proven over the years they are several players away from being good; they draft for need and it never works out;
I pick the best player available. For me though, I would rather have a stud DL than stud LB's. The Raiders DL and LB's have a lot to be desired;
The LB's, WR, OL, LB, DL, have holes to fill.
It still ticks me off that they should have drafted Adrian Peterson, and Larry Fitzgerald; and thats just two picks; and instead they got Russell and Huff; The best RB and WR were at the Raiders door step; I wanted them then;
The Raiders have to draft better and get a 2 year plan and stop the nonsense that they are a player or two away from being good.
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