View Full Version : Update: And then there were 4....
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/raiders/detail?&entry_id=38498
Raiders coach Tom Cable was mum on who the Raiders want to draft and what their biggest needs are, which is to be expected at these predraft press conferences.
He did, however, admit the Raiders have narrowed down the field of candidates for the No. 7 overall pick of next weekend's draft.
"Four spots," Cable said at team headquarters Tuesday. "I'm not going to share them with you either. But I know we need one of four guys."
Update on fullback Oren O'Neal's knee: "I think the hope is he'll be ready to start at training camp. He is progressing. Because of the type of injury and everything, there is good days and bad days but he is getting better and it is progressing so I think the plan is still at training camp we're ready to go."
Update on Javon Walker's health: "He is working. He is not here but he is working and he is healthy, cleared, good to go, for sure."
Compare John Marshall's defense to Rob Ryan's: "There will be a lot of similarity. Hopefully, we'll just be maybe a little more fundamentally sound, a little more structured."
Big O Dick
04-14-2009, 01:42 PM
Crabtree, Raji, Orakpo, General Manager :mean:
JRaider17
04-14-2009, 01:43 PM
While I like that he didn't say who we were looking at, gave no clues. A part of me really wanted to see a clue.
yayarea_raider
04-14-2009, 01:56 PM
I'm guessing Crabtree, Smith, Orakpo and Raji. Two of those guys should be there at 7.
cheapshotartist
04-14-2009, 01:57 PM
Cable was not lying he don't no because Al ain't told his azz yet. Cable ain't calling no shots in Oaktown. As far as the defense, that is not what I wanted to hear. It looks like Marshall will be running Al's defense. Damn.
:csa:
Big O Dick
04-14-2009, 02:03 PM
Cable was not lying he don't no because Al ain't told his azz yet. Cable ain't calling no shots in Oaktown. As far as the defense, that is not what I wanted to hear. It looks like Marshall will be running Al's defense. Damn.
:csa:
Well cuz we know who the real coach is! The way that the offseason has gone so far, Im starting to wonder if someone kidnapped Al until the season starts.
Sonny Cheeba
04-14-2009, 03:05 PM
I was just on Jerry Mac's live transcript and got this...
3:02 [Comment From J. Wright]
Jerry, are the Raiders seriously interested in Oher or A. Smith 7th overall? I sure hope not, especially over Raji.
3:03 jerrymac: Cable made it sound today like they were interested in both of them. Also said he thought much of the run defense problems could be addressed by more disciplined defense and coaching (with the same basic system) . . . read into that as you will . .
Focus is on offense imo. So far we got two new starters on the OL. I think they are targeting Maclin, Crabtree, Smith and Monroe.
Gridiron PIRATE
04-14-2009, 03:28 PM
Here's another link (http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2009/04/14/tom-cable-on-the-draft/) with Cable's talk.
That last bit about the defense being similar sucks. To me it only says we'll have a similar defense, with similar production and similar results. :csa:
Miklo
04-14-2009, 03:34 PM
That article seems to take his quote a bit out of context, I understood it as the team had 3 or 4 specific needs that he would like to see addressed. What are they? Well, I'll take a guess.
In no particular order:
Safety
WR
DT
OT
I would also say DE, but the way he was so excited about the 4 top OT prospects makes me think his ideal draft would have him landing one of those.
That article seems to take his quote a bit out of context, I understood it as the team had 3 or 4 specific needs that he would like to see addressed. What are they? Well, I'll take a guess.
In no particular order:
Safety
WR
DT
OT
I would also say DE, but the way he was so excited about the 4 top OT prospects makes me think his ideal draft would have him landing one of those.
I think it's WR, DT, S, OT in particular order
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/raiders/detail?&entry_id=38498
Raiders coach Tom Cable was mum on who the Raiders want to draft and what their biggest needs are, which is to be expected at these predraft press conferences.
He did, however, admit the Raiders have narrowed down the field of candidates for the No. 7 overall pick of next weekend's draft.
"Four spots," Cable said at team headquarters Tuesday. "I'm not going to share them with you either. But I know we need one of four guys."
Update on fullback Oren O'Neal's knee: "I think the hope is he'll be ready to start at training camp. He is progressing. Because of the type of injury and everything, there is good days and bad days but he is getting better and it is progressing so I think the plan is still at training camp we're ready to go."
Update on Javon Walker's health: "He is working. He is not here but he is working and he is healthy, cleared, good to go, for sure."
Compare John Marshall's defense to Rob Ryan's: "There will be a lot of similarity. Hopefully, we'll just be maybe a little more fundamentally sound, a little more structured."
I wonder if Oren O'neal will be 100% by August?? FB might be a problem if he isn't ready to ball.
el boracho
04-14-2009, 06:46 PM
Compare John Marshall's defense to Rob Ryan's: "There will be a lot of similarity. Hopefully, we'll just be maybe a little more fundamentally sound, a little more structured."
i sure hope not...He better bring the heat unlike Rob And the infamous Prevent or soft defense that we were used to seeing...
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 06:52 PM
He is right -- we need to have more structure on defense. How many times were our guys continuning to overpursue on RUN D?
The article completely twist his point around.
He talked about finding 4 impact guys, not 4 potential guys we could take in round one... typical BAY AREA BS.
Sonny Cheeba
04-14-2009, 07:06 PM
He is right -- we need to have more structure on defense. How many times were our guys continuning to overpursue on RUN D?
The article completely twist his point around.
He talked about finding 4 impact guys, not 4 potential guys we could take in round one... typical BAY AREA BS.
I would like a more aggressive defense, but I'm not really that disappointed with this approach. Fundamentals and gameplanning are every bit as important when it comes to defense.
The Jets game, we must have jumped offside like 5 times in the first half, that is unacceptable. Gap control, don't overpursue, play recognition, TACKLING, if we can just play smart and limit the mistakes I think the defense can be middle of the pack.
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 07:12 PM
I would like a more aggressive defense, but I'm not really that disappointed with this approach. Fundamentals and gameplanning are every bit as important when it comes to defense.
The Jets game, we must have jumped offside like 5 times in the first half, that is unacceptable. Gap control, don't overpursue, play recognition, TACKLING, if we can just play smart and limit the mistakes I think the defense can be middle of the pack.
I would like a more aggressive D, but I prefer a D that actually tackles better, hits people and forces three and out with fundamental football.
el boracho
04-14-2009, 07:18 PM
He is right -- we need to have more structure on defense. How many times were our guys continuning to overpursue on RUN D?
The article completely twist his point around.
He talked about finding 4 impact guys, not 4 potential guys we could take in round one... typical BAY AREA BS.
i definantly do understand about having more structure and being more fundamentally sound but I just dont agree with having a similar D as Robs....Maybe the article does twist his point around but i dont agree with a similar D as Robs at all....
i definantly do understand about having more structure and being more fundamentally sound but I just dont agree with having a similar D as Robs....Maybe the article does twist his point around but i dont agree with a similar D as Robs at all....
You mean basically you are dissapointed that we are continuing to run Al's defense?
Remember Robs preffered scheme is a 3-4
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 07:38 PM
i definantly do understand about having more structure and being more fundamentally sound but I just dont agree with having a similar D as Robs....Maybe the article does twist his point around but i dont agree with a similar D as Robs at all....
We run a 43 defense, half of the teams in the league run a 43, not sure what type of defense you are looking for.
There is really nothing wrong with the scheme. I absolutely believe that poor execution and lack of discipline are the root problem, coupled with a general lack of creativity in applying pressure.
Chaps
04-14-2009, 07:45 PM
thats pretty interesting. it should be interesting to see where we go come draft day.
el boracho
04-14-2009, 07:47 PM
We run a 43 defense, half of the teams in the league run a 43, not sure what type of defense you are looking for.
not talking about the base defense... What im talking about is the packages that we showed on the 3rd and longs....Sitting back and letting them convert on a consistent basis....You cant tell me your happy with the packages that Rob and Al used to use....Players said it, fans say it, other teams have said it...We were just to simple and predictable....I want a defense that has multiple blitz packages..Bring those safeties on a blitz every now and then...
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 07:47 PM
There is really nothing wrong with the scheme. I absolutely believe that poor execution and lack of discipline are the root problem, coupled with a general lack of creativity in applying pressure.
There is not a lot of difference in schemes. Some teams blitz more, some teams play seven in the box, it all depends. The key is to get better players rather than having dog shit. We don't have enough good players on the DL.
You mean basically you are dissapointed that we are continuing to run Al's defense?
Remember Robs preffered scheme is a 3-4
And I remember that year when he ran the 3-4 scheme with the wrong personnel.. It was the most terrible defense we had since 2001 IMO
Nacho Vidal
04-14-2009, 08:02 PM
There is not a lot of difference in schemes. Some teams blitz more, some teams play seven in the box, it all depends. The key is to get better players rather than having dog shit. We don't have enough good players on the DL.
We have to play with what we've got. Lets remember that Al is going to get the players that he wants. Our DL does suck, but how much money have we put into it already??? Sands, Kelly, and Warren take up alot of money. What about the Patriots on Offense and defense they are all about scheme. They had Troy Brown playing CB/Safety for Gods sakes. Scheme is just as important as the players that play it. You can have good players and a shitting scheme and that does not mean you have a top ten defense. The two go hand in hand. :619:
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 08:03 PM
not talking about the base defense... What im talking about is the packages that we showed on the 3rd and longs....Sitting back and letting them convert on a consistent basis....You cant tell me your happy with the packages that Rob and Al used to use....Players said it, fans say it, other teams have said it...We were just to simple and predictable....I want a defense that has multiple blitz packages..Bring those safeties on a blitz every now and then...
Like i stated, some teams choose to blitz and some teams choose to sit back and play zone. Really, there is not that much of a difference. And if we had better personnel upfront teams would not be converting on third and long, regardless of what is being run.
We brought S blitz at times aganist teams like KC and Denver and Buffalo.
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 08:04 PM
We have to play with what we've got. Lets remember that Al is going to get the players that he wants. Our DL does suck, but how much money have we put into it already??? Sands, Kelly, and Warren take up alot of money. What about the Patriots on Offense and defense they are all about scheme. They had Troy Brown playing CB/Safety for Gods sakes. Scheme is just as important as the players that play it. You can have good players and a shitting scheme and that does not mean you have a top ten defense. The two go hand in hand. :619:
Scheme does not mean shit if you don't have the players. You cannot make a tuna sandwhich out of dogshit. Some of you people do not understand this...:boom:
el boracho
04-14-2009, 08:10 PM
Scheme does not mean shit if you don't have the players. You cannot make a tuna sandwhich out of dogshit. Some of you people do not understand this...:boom:
some of us people???? So what your saying is if you have a probowl player at every position you wont need a coach?? You wont need different packages and different looks? Like its been said you need to have balance both with the players and with the coaches...They go hand in hand....
Nacho Vidal
04-14-2009, 09:48 PM
Does it look like we have those great players you speak of??? I don't think so....So what your saying is that if we had these great players who gives a shit what scheme we run??? We have the players we have. So lets come up with a scheme that best fits our personal.
:619:
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 09:57 PM
some of us people???? So what your saying is if you have a probowl player at every position you wont need a coach?? You wont need different packages and different looks? Like its been said you need to have balance both with the players and with the coaches...They go hand in hand....
Yes, some of you people. You cannot even make the most diffcult of schemes work with garbage players; it is not that hard to understand.
You think scheme is going to help us when we don't have an elite pass rusher on this squad. If you cannot rush the quarterback and if you don't have a physical front seven you cannot do too many things on defense.
Teams like the Patriots can do different things based on the personnel they have had for years.
Giants won the super bowl basically with a dominanting front four and a very effeicent blitz. The bltiz they had worked largerly because of the DL they had.
I have a background as both a player and a coach (scouting coach for JUCO B-BALL) to understand the importance of talent.
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Does it look like we have those great players you speak of??? I don't think so....So what your saying is that if we had these great players who gives a shit what scheme we run??? We have the players we have. So lets come up with a scheme that best fits our personal.
:619:
Best scheme that fits our personnel is the 43. And no, we do not have that many standout players. A grand total of two guys are pro bowl calibers on defense: Nmandi and Burgess. Talent wins in this damn league.
Guys like Terdel Sands, Micheal Huff, Ricky Brown (stiff), Jay Richardson, etc are not good enough to play on most teams in this league.
Baltimore, regardless of the DC, has been competitve for years... geesh, do you think it has something to do with Talent?
el boracho
04-14-2009, 10:20 PM
Yes, some of you people. You cannot even make the most diffcult of schemes work with garbage players; it is not that hard to understand.
You think scheme is going to help us when we don't have an elite pass rusher on this squad. If you cannot rush the quarterback and if you don't have a physical front seven you cannot do too many things on defense.
Teams like the Patriots can do different things based on the personnel they have had for years.
Giants won the super bowl basically with a dominanting front four and a very effeicent blitz. The bltiz they had worked largerly because of the DL they had.
I have a background as both a player and a coach (scouting coach for JUCO B-BALL) to understand the importance of talent.
Did you ever hear me say anything about not needing some talented players????? No you didnt....All am saying is that we need to have both a good coaching staff that understands schemes and a talented core group of players....My 85 year old senile grandma understands that the Raiders need some players......These players weve had in here are straight garbage...You have to have balance and that comes along with a good coaching staff understanding the game....Just ask the Colt, Pat, and Steeler fans....In the NFL you win with a strong organization and thats the front office,players, coaching staff, and so forth.....Everyone in this dam site knows what we need ...Not that hard....So yeah im those people that understand what we need....Do you???
GenRaider
04-14-2009, 10:43 PM
Did you ever hear me say anything about not needing some talented players????? No you didnt....All am saying is that we need to have both a good coaching staff that understands schemes and a talented core group of players....My 85 year old senile grandma understands that the Raiders need some players......These players weve had in here are straight garbage...You have to have balance and that comes along with a good coaching staff understanding the game....Just ask the Colt, Pat, and Steeler fans....In the NFL you win with a strong organization and thats the front office,players, coaching staff, and so forth.....Everyone in this dam site knows what we need ...Not that hard....So yeah im those people that understand what we need....Do you???
Of course you need a staff that understands how to utilize the personnel. I made the arguement (which is my thesis) that in order to make our scheme work we need better players, period. The number 1 reason most coaches get fired is based upon personnel rather than their ability.
As the great RaiderMort told me this off season "Oakland needs better players -- that is the number one reason why they haven't won."
el boracho
04-14-2009, 10:47 PM
Of course you need a staff that understands how to utilize the personnel. I made the arguement (which is my thesis) that in order to make our scheme work we need better players, period. The number 1 reason most coaches get fired is based upon personnel rather than their ability.
As the great RaiderMort told me this off season "Oakland needs better players -- that is the number one reason why they haven't won."
Gen you know, i know, everyone knows what we need....its a mood point...We can go around in circles and talk about this or that but bottom line this organization needs an upgrade at just about every position....Players, Coaches, water boys, owner, and so forth....we ALL know what needs to go down...
BigPrimo
04-15-2009, 03:54 AM
Just get rid of the fuckin PREVENT-A-WIN-DEFENSE and im good.
Big Game Geoff
04-15-2009, 10:58 AM
Update on fullback Oren O'Neal's knee: "I think the hope is he'll be ready to start at training camp. He is progressing. Because of the type of injury and everything, there is good days and bad days but he is getting better and it is progressing so I think the plan is still at training camp we're ready to go."
Doesn't sound encouraging for the kid. I had high hopes for Orenthal...
Update on Javon Walker's health: "He is working. He is not here but he is working and he is healthy, cleared, good to go, for sure."
You'd think Javon would be doing some damage control in Oakland after last season's debacle...
Compare John Marshall's defense to Rob Ryan's: "There will be a lot of similarity. Hopefully, we'll just be maybe a little more fundamentally sound, a little more structured."
LMFAO. Fundamentally sound? I thought this was a professional league, guess I was wrong...
Raidermaiden
04-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Update on fullback Oren O'Neal's knee: "I think the hope is he'll be ready to start at training camp. He is progressing. Because of the type of injury and everything, there is good days and bad days but he is getting better and it is progressing so I think the plan is still at training camp we're ready to go."
Does not sound good for Oren such an important position in the development of our star running back McFadden's progress, didn't we get rid of Justin Griffith too? and we all know Bush does not want to run in front of anybody nor do I think he should he is a bruising running back he did well. I wonder if we will address this position in the draft.
Does not sound good for Oren such an important position in the development of our star running back McFadden's progress, didn't we get rid of Justin Griffith too? and we all know Bush does not want to run in front of anybody nor do I think he should he is a bruising running back he did well. I wonder if we will address this position in the draft.
We still have until August though to see if he'll be 100%.. The injury he had usually takes more than a year to recover from
Raidermaiden
04-15-2009, 11:37 AM
We still have until August though to see if he'll be 100%.. The injury he had usually takes more than a year to recover fromI hope so, cuz I like me some O'ren O'neal and this is one less hole to fill.
I hope so, cuz I like me some O'ren O'neal and this is one less hole to fill.
And dude can block too.. I really wanted to see him last year, but he was unfortunate.. We'll see how he fairs this year though, hopefully..
Raidermaiden
04-15-2009, 11:43 AM
And dude can block too.. I really wanted to see him last year, but he was unfortunate.. We'll see how he fairs this year though, hopefully..Yeah, he could block like a mofo, our running backs did great running behind him, so yea I hope he comes back full throttle at least it looks like he is giving it hell.
VaRayder
04-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Update on Javon Walker's health: "He is working. He is not here but he is working and he is healthy, cleared, good to go, for sure."
Compare John Marshall's defense to Rob Ryan's: "There will be a lot of similarity. Hopefully, we'll just be maybe a little more fundamentally sound, a little more structured."
Wish Walker WAS there and wish he had said they would be WAY more fundamentally sound and WAY more structured
GenRaider
04-15-2009, 02:03 PM
Gen you know, i know, everyone knows what we need....its a mood point...We can go around in circles and talk about this or that but bottom line this organization needs an upgrade at just about every position....Players, Coaches, water boys, owner, and so forth....we ALL know what needs to go down...
You can forget about owner; that ain't happenin', cuz.
Best scheme that fits our personnel is the 43. And no, we do not have that many standout players. A grand total of two guys are pro bowl calibers on defense: Nmandi and Burgess. Talent wins in this damn league.
Guys like Terdel Sands, Micheal Huff, Ricky Brown (stiff), Jay Richardson, etc are not good enough to play on most teams in this league.
Baltimore, regardless of the DC, has been competitve for years... geesh, do you think it has something to do with Talent?
Burgess is NOT a pro bowl caliber player. I dont care what he did a couple years back. He is absolutely awful against the run.
His best year was in 2006 when he had 10 sacks. In 2005 when he had 16 many of those were coverage sacks. Our pass rush was still terrible in 2005. That's why we got only 5 int's the ENTIRE season. 2 from Stu, 1 from SAPP, 1 from R. Hill, and 1 from Cwood.
He is a very inconsistent pass rusher who cant stop the run and cant stay healthy. He is nowhere near an elite player.
GenRaider
04-15-2009, 03:43 PM
Burgess is NOT a pro bowl caliber player. I dont care what he did a couple years back. He is absolutely awful against the run.
His best year was in 2006 when he had 10 sacks. In 2005 when he had 16 many of those were coverage sacks. Our pass rush was still terrible in 2005. That's why we got only 5 int's the ENTIRE season. 2 from Stu, 1 from SAPP, 1 from R. Hill, and 1 from Cwood.
He is a very inconsistent pass rusher who cant stop the run and cant stay healthy. He is nowhere near an elite player.
In case you missed it, I pointed out the guys on defense who have been to the pro bowl recently. Like it or not, or24, Burgess has been to the pro bowl. Debating if he is a pro bowl caliber is another subject altogether.
And just in case you have not noticed, pro bowl is a numbers game when it comes to defensive ends. If you generally put up numbers in terms of rushing the qb, you have a great chance of making the pro bowl, case closed.
Tió Nook Nook
04-15-2009, 05:10 PM
Best scheme that fits our personnel is the 43. And no, we do not have that many standout players. A grand total of two guys are pro bowl calibers on defense: Nmandi and Burgess. Talent wins in this damn league.
Guys like Terdel Sands, Micheal Huff, Ricky Brown (stiff), Jay Richardson, etc are not good enough to play on most teams in this league.
Baltimore, regardless of the DC, has been competitve for years... geesh, do you think it has something to do with Talent?
In case you missed it, I pointed out the guys on defense who have been to the pro bowl recently. Like it or not, or24, Burgess has been to the pro bowl. Debating if he is a pro bowl caliber is another subject altogether.
And just in case you have not noticed, pro bowl is a numbers game when it comes to defensive ends. If you generally put up numbers in terms of rushing the qb, you have a great chance of making the pro bowl, case closed.
In case you missed it, you clearly said Burgess is a pro bowl caliber player.
yayarea_raider
04-15-2009, 06:05 PM
In case you missed it, you clearly said Burgess is a pro bowl caliber player.
When he's healthy, and used correctly, he is.
el boracho
04-15-2009, 06:29 PM
When he's healthy, and used correctly, he is.
Yeah your right...When the coaching staff uses him correctly...What you think about that Gen...Do you agree .....:rofl
Miklo
04-15-2009, 06:57 PM
Yeah your right...When the coaching staff uses him correctly...What you think about that Gen...Do you agree .....:rofl
Used correctly? :lame he's a D-end!
He lines up, goes after the QB if it's a passing down, goes after the back if it's a running down. How can the coaching staff not use him correctly? That's a load of BS, blaming the coaching staff for Burgess's lack of production. Bottom line, he plays when he wants, and he gets injured too much. I like Burgess when he's healthy, but he rarely is, and even when he is he isn't the greatest against the run. Spin it how you like, but if a coach uses a defensive end wrong that coach should be coaching in the lingerie football league.
el boracho
04-15-2009, 07:17 PM
Used correctly? :lame he's a D-end!
He lines up, goes after the QB if it's a passing down, goes after the back if it's a running down. How can the coaching staff not use him correctly? That's a load of BS, blaming the coaching staff for Burgess's lack of production. Bottom line, he plays when he wants, and he gets injured too much. I like Burgess when he's healthy, but he rarely is, and even when he is he isn't the greatest against the run. Spin it how you like, but if a coach uses a defensive end wrong that coach should be coaching in the lingerie football league.
Here we go again...haha...gap assignments, studying game film, or preparation alone have nothing to do with the coaching staff?????Letting a d end that specializes in passing downs play for a whole dam series????....shxt like that....This isnt smash mouth football from back in the day...you just dont line up and play every down and tackle the ball carrier......Your going to tell me Rob knew what the fxck he was doing with the personel he had...Putting linebackers on the defensive line and so forth...Thats what im getting at...Not making an excuse for any of these players but the coaches are equally to blame for this shxt..
JRaider17
04-16-2009, 08:04 AM
Burgess is either a beast or does shit. Burgess hurts us big in the run game just as much as anyone too. He continues to try and run by the linemen are takes too big of an angle and leaves a huge hole. And on passing he does not get a constant pressure. He might get a sack, but that and maybe another time was his only pressure.
He sure played like a probowl caliber player in the opener against Denver last year. Did Jay's jersey even get dirty that game? Burgess looked ASLEEP out there. Denver's RT? What is it? Ryan Harris? Some say he's underrated but he shut down Burgess completely.
Same thing happened the year before against DETROIT in the opener. I think it was Damien Woody. How does an end supposedly that good get taken out of a game without any help?
Kelly and Warren were BOTH getting doubled on some plays because our ends were so horrible. T. Scott came in on a 3rd down and the TE I think (Graham) took him out of the play. A TE!!! Wtf??
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