Why is it that Raider fans

[cheapshotartist]

Can someone tell me why is it that when we draft or trade for a player and said player turns out to be a stiff we hate on said player and not the organization? Case in point LT Kwame Harris when we signed him all hell broke loose because we all knew what we were getting. A high paid stiff. When we drafted JaMarcus Russell some Raider fans ( a lot of Raider fans) were besides themselves, calling Russell a bust, stupid, slow, wearing too much bling. Remember when we signed Moss? Same thing. Mike Huff, Deanglo Hall, the list goes on. When ever we signed a stiff the stiff caught hell from the Raider Nation. My question is this why does the person who does the drafting and FA signings get a free pass while the player gets thrown to the dogs? If the person doing the drafting/FA signings did their homework and worked with a GM and their coaching staffs like the rest of the NFL maybe we would have a better prepared team. Maybe we would build our team to be successful and able to compete instead of winning 4 or 5 games a season and then putting all the blame on the Head Coach. In other words why don't we hold the person who calls all the shots responsible for mistake after mistake in the draft? Why is that Raider Nation? If you test drive a bucket and it runs like :shit: and you still buy it and it breaks down whose fault is it? You can't blame the cars salesman because you knew you bought a bucket, right? So why does the person calling all the shots for the Raiders get a free pass when he drafts stiff after stiff? I'm not saying DHB and Mitchell are stiffs what I'm saying is we needed a franchise LT, we needed a young stud DT, we needed a #1 WR and we did not get them or the best WR available. Why don't we hold management responsible for their actions. If you have a competent front office you won't keep making the same mistakes. I'm tired of hearing Al will get it done, when was the last time Al got it done? When was the last time our Raiders played 500 ball? Why does Al keep getting a free pass while our team is slowly sinking? Comments?
:csa:

[☠♏ž ჭεĭծեყ ☠]

Because it's easier to pick on the little guy!!

[BigPrimo]

well for instance you cant tell me that bringing in MOss to go along with Collins is a bad move. Its not Al's fault that he decided to DOG IT OUT and that NOrve was a shitty coach. Its not AL fault that Deangelo Hall decided to play liek and asshat is it? We could get MAnning from the colts and if he dogs it out should we blame AL for getting manning? Im just saying sometimes the coaches and the players have to go out and make it happen on teh field. NORVE TURNER had one fucking hellofa OFFENSE to work with and should have put up MInisota viking numbers.

And i dotn get how you can say we dont bash on AL and the ORg. IN fact i think most of us are here at this new awsome site because we did just that on the other site. I know thats why i got banned. so dont sit there and say we dont bash on AL or the Raiders. In fact if i ever saw John Herrera i would punch him in the face just on GP!!!

Look at last year we were like 17 points away from being teh division winner? Is that Al's fault in the end or Do the players actaully need to step it up. ANd to teh sake of teh coaches and Al those same underachieveing Players arnt here anymore are they?

[cheapshotartist]

^^ 1.Bringing in Moss when your offensive line can't pass protect and your QB can't run makes no sense.

2. Trading for a cover two corner and having him play man makes no sense and then paying him 8 mil for 8 games seals the deal.

3. Norv Turners no coaching azz has gone to the playoffs a few time since we fired his azz.

4. Mike Shanarat has won SB's since we fired his azz.

5. Chucky put foot in our azz in the SB the year after we fired his azz.

6. Hiring yes man kiss azz HC's and then firing their azz when they can't win with the stiffs you drafted is not the way to run an organization.

Don't take this post personal BP it was not directed at you alone. I'm just asking a question and looking for some feedback. I've also been banned from a few Raider sites, damn near everyone here has.
:csa:

[BigPrimo]

^^ 1.Bringing in Moss when your offensive line can't pass protect and your QB can't run makes no sense.

2. Trading for a cover two corner and having him play man makes no sense and then paying him 8 mil for 8 games seals the deal.

3. Norv Turners no coaching azz has gone to the playoffs a few time since we fired his azz.

4. Mike Shanarat has won SB's since we fired his azz.

5. Chucky put foot in our azz in the SB the year after we fired his azz.

6. Hiring yes man kiss azz HC's and then firing their azz when they can't win with the stiffs you drafted is not the way to run an organization.

Don't take this post personal BP it was not directed at you alone. I'm just asking a question and looking for some feedback. I've also been banned from a few Raider sites, damn near everyone here has.
:csa:

im not takign it personal. Im telling you we do bash AL and his cronies. But do we need to do it 24/7. Thats not gonna accomplish alot. I can tell you that we do take offense when people outside fo teh raider nation bash the raiders but thats just us being us.

Getting Randy Moss on your team in any way shape or form is never and will never be wrong in my book. Why Al didnt get a Oline along with him i dunno, and yeah hes dumb for not getting Collins more protection but again That has nothing to do with bringing in Randy Moss. Moss Choking and not playing 100% has nothing to do with AL and teh Oline.

I agree with the yes men coaches and getting rid of Gruden, I wanted Gruden back this year lol. But it is what it is. Check it out ill make a good analogy or attempt to....

In the marine Corp we get the busted ass old 1900's revolutionary/civil war equipment while the army/Airforce get the brand new state of teh art shit.

We can bitch and colpain all we want but WE STILL HAVE TO USE THAT EQUIPMENT AND GET THE JOB DONE NO QUESTIONS ASK WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO CRUNCH TIME.

AL has made numerous mistakes. I can get to 10000000posts today by listing just 1/4 of them as can any raider fan. But the bottem line is The coaches need to coach and the player need to play. Its not ALs fault Morrison cant tackle is it? I mean i hated Ryan and his shitty defense and it always seemed our players were out of position but even then its not his fault A player misses a straight up tackle. DOes and should Morrison be taught or coach how to tackle someone at this level? HE HAS THE TALENT TO BE ONE OF THE BEST NLF LINEBACKERS but he makes the same damn mistakes over and over. How come he cant shed a block to save his life?

A majority of it is AL and hes the owner and GM so YES he deserves most of teh critisim an dteyh bashing but so do teh coaches and so do the players.

[Frantz Presaesno]

Moss didn't "choke." He had 1,000 yards in his first year with one of the worst QB/OL combinations in the history of football. Did he tank it his 2nd year? Yes. Wouldn't you? The Raiders weren't winning when he didn't tank it that season, and why would you lay out and risk your Hall of Fame career for a 2 win season? Moss is hardly the only star player who's not given a full effort in a lost season because he wanted to make big plays in meaningful games. Trading for Moss was STUPID. We needed OL and a QB and failed to get them.

Al continues to draft players and sign FA's that suck. He continues hiring crony coaches and insisting on a stupid, vanilla defensive scheme. That's his fault.

[yayarea_raider]

I give Al shit all the time. Fuck Al. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. But he's the owner, he controls everything, he's God of the Raiders and everything under that title is required to do what he says.

The game is different now and he still drafts the same way, and picks up free agents to fill depth on the offensive and defensive lines. It sucks, but hey what can you do?

What I do is hope at least two of our draft picks are starters. Hopefully the rest can make an impact on ST's. Can't control what goes on so you just have to hope that AL finally strikes gold on one fast player lol

[yayarea_raider]

Moss didn't "choke." He had 1,000 yards in his first year with one of the worst QB/OL combinations in the history of football. Did he tank it his 2nd year? Yes. Wouldn't you?

NO. HELL FUCKING NO. He was the damn OFFENSIVE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM.

I will always hate on him for that sh!t. Did you see Calvin Johnson tanking it last year for the Lions? CASE CLOSED

[BigPrimo]

Moss didn't "choke." He had 1,000 yards in his first year with one of the worst QB/OL combinations in the history of football. Did he tank it his 2nd year? Yes. Wouldn't you? The Raiders weren't winning when he didn't tank it that season, and why would you lay out and risk your Hall of Fame career for a 2 win season? Moss is hardly the only star player who's not given a full effort in a lost season because he wanted to make big plays in meaningful games. Trading for Moss was STUPID. We needed OL and a QB and failed to get them.

Al continues to draft players and sign FA's that suck. He continues hiring crony coaches and insisting on a stupid, vanilla defensive scheme. That's his fault.

OK well i said my piece. If thats how you feel then so be it. I just dont agree. AL ha smade dumb ass mistakes with coaches and player but MOss wasnt one of them. You get paid to play. Did Moss give back any of that money he made? FUCK NO, then he should give 100% every game, practice and meeting BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE GETS PAID TO DO.

[silver & black]

Oh... I'm fairly sure I've said a thing or two about ol' Al over the past few years... thats why this is home!...lol.

It is no secret that I didn't want JR. It has/had nothing to do with thinking he was/is stupid or anything like that... I just think that ONE game made him the have to have QB that year. I'm on recoed as wanting to trade down that year. JR is the QB of my team... so I support him 100% and hope for nothing but the best for him. That doesn't mean I don't think he NEEDS to step his game up this year.

In the long run, you're right... Al has to take the brunt of the blame for choosing FA's poorly and drafting poorly. But, that doesn't give the players a free pass either. They have all played this game from Pop Warner, on through to the NFL... they know damned well what it takes to win... show a little drive and desire out there!

[Frantz Presaesno]

NO. HELL FUCKING NO. He was the damn OFFENSIVE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM.

I will always hate on him for that sh!t. Did you see Calvin Johnson tanking it last year for the Lions? CASE CLOSED

Calvin Johnson didn't join the Lions after already being one of the greatest WR's of all time.

You may not like what Moss did, but it happens in the NFL all the time. And honestly, would you give 100% and risk an injury when you know you can force your way off the island and into a better situation?

Hate on Moss all you want, he's the big winner in all of this. He's won 27 games in 2 seasons with New England and re-ignited his career. He broke the single season TD record.

[yayarea_raider]

Calvin Johnson didn't join the Lions after already being one of the greatest WR's of all time.

You may not like what Moss did, but it happens in the NFL all the time. And honestly, would you give 100% and risk an injury when you know you can force your way off the island and into a better situation?

Hate on Moss all you want, he's the big winner in all of this. He's won 27 games in 2 seasons with New England and re-ignited his career. He broke the single season TD record.

he may have broke the single TD record but the talent around him made that possible and I'll argue that til the day I die. Rice will always be the better receiver to me anyways.

it may happen in the NFL all the time...and that's why teams try to rid themselves of those players. Risk injury though? They signed up FOR THAT. It's like a cop saying "wait, I have to use this on someone who's not that important?" doesn't matter if they're a big enough threat to you.

By the way, Al was a dumbass for not putting escalators on that drat pick for Moss. Could have had a second round pick at the least with the season he had. Another reason I can't wait til he isn't owner of this team anymore.

[silver & black]

Calvin Johnson didn't join the Lions after already being one of the greatest WR's of all time.

You may not like what Moss did, but it happens in the NFL all the time. And honestly, would you give 100% and risk an injury when you know you can force your way off the island and into a better situation?

Hate on Moss all you want, he's the big winner in all of this. He's won 27 games in 2 seasons with New England and re-ignited his career. He broke the single season TD record.

And every time he looks in the mirror, he can't run away from the quitter that stares back at him... no matter how many TD's he scores. I suppose it all depends on what you place the most value on in life... integrity or personal accolades.

[Frantz Presaesno]

he may have broke the single TD record but the talent around him made that possible and I'll argue that til the day I die. Rice will always be the better receiver to me anyways.

Not that I don't agree that Moss had excellent talent around him, but REALLY? Are we forgetting the insane team Rice had around him (in an era with no salary caps)?

it may happen in the NFL all the time...and that's why teams try to rid themselves of those players. Risk injury though? They signed up FOR THAT. It's like a cop saying "wait, I have to use this on someone who's not that important?" doesn't matter if they're a big enough threat to you.

By the way, Al was a dumbass for not putting escalators on that drat pick for Moss. Could have had a second round pick at the least with the season he had. Another reason I can't wait til he isn't owner of this team anymore.

Here's the thing: I agree in theory, but I'm also not Randy Moss. I don't have that kind of a legacy at stake. Maybe I'd think about things differently if I did.

At the end of the day, it's tough to judge certain things without actually standing in someone's shoes. Imagine sitting at home saying "I am already in the Hall of Fame, but I can still be the best that ever played..." Makes you re-think a lot of things.

[Don]

Yo cheap. Al and his cronie click get no passes on shit. I hold him fully accountable for the futility of this team as well do I praise the man for the badass team he took over and dominated with for so many years.

Of course DeAngelo Hall and JAvon Walker etc.. were Al Davis pickups and were horrible personell descisions and I think were done for the purpose of putting butts in seats last year more than actually winning games. I will say that I do think we are on to something here with our current group of young talent, and will reserve judgement on this draft class untill I see a full season of them playing. If they do stink it up, its all on al. IF they come out and play well, Im sure many will say we got lucky, etc...but no thats on Al too.

[Frantz Presaesno]

If Hall and Walker were signed to put butts in seats than we need to be really scared of Al Davis' "touch" with reality. Walker has never been a big star and Hall was the 2nd most popular player on the Falcons for like half a season before he turned into a fussy attitude problem and got burned by every WR he faced.

Al must be about 3 years behind on his TIVO. Gotta get up to speed! Quick, who was tearing it up in 2006? We can't sign Peyton Manning...

[Don]

Hill you are trippin if you think big FA splashes don;'t get people to buy tickets. Thats elementary, bro.

[JRaider17]

Moss didn't "choke." He had 1,000 yards in his first year with one of the worst QB/OL combinations in the history of football. Did he tank it his 2nd year? Yes. Wouldn't you? The Raiders weren't winning when he didn't tank it that season, and why would you lay out and risk your Hall of Fame career for a 2 win season? Moss is hardly the only star player who's not given a full effort in a lost season because he wanted to make big plays in meaningful games. Trading for Moss was STUPID. We needed OL and a QB and failed to get them.

Al continues to draft players and sign FA's that suck. He continues hiring crony coaches and insisting on a stupid, vanilla defensive scheme. That's his fault.

People say Moss sucked in Oakland, actually he did fairly well in the first season. He just refused to play, and thats because of his attitude. If Moss wanted to play, and we were not terrible, he would have been producing.

[Tor]

I haven't seen one Al Davis apologist on ROC. Not everyone chooses to constantly abuse him like some people I know.

Bashing on Al (as much as he deserves it) is so trendy...

[Frantz Presaesno]

Hill you are trippin if you think big FA splashes don;'t get people to buy tickets. Thats elementary, bro.

People don't buy tickets to see Javon Walker or DeAngelo Hall and those signings (along with Kelly) were just as criticized as they were championed. You obviously know what my opinion was on them and it sucked to be right again. I called Javon Walker "the Andruw Jones of the NFL."

[sraiderguy]

I believe most fans do hold Al accountable, but seriously what can fans do? Stop going to games? Raiders do not sell out games as is.

I think that when fans jump on players they are in turn jumping on ownership for bringing those players into the organization.

I really do not expect Al to do the right thing. Raiders had a decent offseason leading up to the draft. I do not feel fans should be overly critical of rookies sice no one KNOWS FOR CERTAIN how they will pan out.

I think most people here are hating on Al's decision making process or lack there of.

[Don]

People don't buy tickets to see Javon Walker or DeAngelo Hall and those signings (along with Kelly) were just as criticized as they were championed. You obviously know what my opinion was on them and it sucked to be right again. I called Javon Walker "the Andruw Jones of the NFL."

Nobody would even buy a Raider ticket to see Randy Moss alone, Hill. That wasn't my point. My point was that when a team goes out and spends dumptruck amounts of money on FA players in one offseason, the result is, like a car crash, people will be more inclined to pay their own money to see what all the fuss is about. Besides having one of the stronger fanbases, this is why through 6 years of absolute crap on the field, the Raiders have managed to sell out AT LEAST 6/8 home games a year. Every offseason the Raiders do crazy shit, and the fans can't help but to go check out what all the fuss was about.

[Tor]

People don't buy tickets to see Javon Walker or DeAngelo Hall and those signings (along with Kelly) were just as criticized as they were championed. You obviously know what my opinion was on them and it sucked to be right again. I called Javon Walker "the Andruw Jones of the NFL."


As bad as Andruw was for us last year, he doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as Javon. Andruw always brought it in center and he was unbelievable with the Braves for a long period of time. Javon was never the calibre of Andruw...

[cheapshotartist]

im not takign it personal. Im telling you we do bash AL and his cronies. But do we need to do it 24/7. Thats not gonna accomplish alot. I can tell you that we do take offense when people outside fo teh raider nation bash the raiders but thats just us being us.

Getting Randy Moss on your team in any way shape or form is never and will never be wrong in my book. Why Al didnt get a Oline along with him i dunno, and yeah hes dumb for not getting Collins more protection but again That has nothing to do with bringing in Randy Moss. Moss Choking and not playing 100% has nothing to do with AL and teh Oline.

I agree with the yes men coaches and getting rid of Gruden, I wanted Gruden back this year lol. But it is what it is. Check it out ill make a good analogy or attempt to....

In the marine Corp we get the busted ass old 1900's revolutionary/civil war equipment while the army/Airforce get the brand new state of teh art shit.

We can bitch and colpain all we want but WE STILL HAVE TO USE THAT EQUIPMENT AND GET THE JOB DONE NO QUESTIONS ASK WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO CRUNCH TIME.

AL has made numerous mistakes. I can get to 10000000posts today by listing just 1/4 of them as can any raider fan. But the bottem line is The coaches need to coach and the player need to play. Its not ALs fault Morrison cant tackle is it? I mean i hated Ryan and his shitty defense and it always seemed our players were out of position but even then its not his fault A player misses a straight up tackle. DOes and should Morrison be taught or coach how to tackle someone at this level? HE HAS THE TALENT TO BE ONE OF THE BEST NLF LINEBACKERS but he makes the same damn mistakes over and over. How come he cant shed a block to save his life?

A majority of it is AL and hes the owner and GM so YES he deserves most of teh critisim an dteyh bashing but so do teh coaches and so do the players.

Great reply BP and I agree, I get worked up over our team at times and need to chill out. I'm just tired of losing and paying stiffs big time money. Are you still in the Corps?
:csa:

[Frantz Presaesno]

As bad as Andruw was for us last year, he doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as Javon. Andruw always brought it in center and he was unbelievable with the Braves for a long period of time. Javon was never the calibre of Andruw...

Here's why I felt it was kinda similar.

- Guy has a solid career
- Guy has a couple of shitty years, experts agree guy is regressing
- Dumbass thinks guy can come revamp his career in a new setting
- Dumbass pays guy tons of money
- Guy inevitably flops

Before the Raiders even took a snap that season (hell, before the Vegas BS), I said Javon would be a ridiculous bust.

[cheapshotartist]

I haven't seen one Al Davis apologist on ROC. Not everyone chooses to constantly abuse him like some people I know.

Bashing on Al (as much as he deserves it) is so trendy...

I must admit I'm a little hard on Al but Al was very hard on the people of Oakland when he moved to L.A. to make more money. Did he give a f**k about those 54,000 fans selling out every Raider home game for years? Did he think about the fans in L.A. when he moved the team back to Oakland? Al is what he is a business man who runs his business the way he wants to run it regardless of the results. F**k Al But I have mad love for the Oakland Raiders.
:csa:

I believe most fans do hold Al accountable, but seriously what can fans do? Stop going to games? Raiders do not sell out games as is.

I think that when fans jump on players they are in turn jumping on ownership for bringing those players into the organization.

I really do not expect Al to do the right thing. Raiders had a decent offseason leading up to the draft. I do not feel fans should be overly critical of rookies sice no one KNOWS FOR CERTAIN how they will pan out.

I think most people here are hating on Al's decision making process or lack there of.

I hear you sraiderguy I would be shocked If Al hired a GM or let his HC hire his own staff. Al is Al and I'll give him credit for that. He don't kiss anyones azz but his cronies have to kiss his. Does that make any sense?
:csa:

[Antonio Trotter]

Al gave us some real good memories...

Its like the wifey you remember her in her heyday... She was bad as hell.. Used to cook, cleana dn burn a bed everyday like no other..

She may not burn up the bed no more, and she may have let herself slip a lil.. But as long as she cooks everyday u r good, and u still love her.

[kyh0mpb]

Al gave us some real good memories...

Its like the wifey you remember her in her heyday... She was bad as hell.. Used to cook, cleana dn burn a bed everyday like no other..

She may not burn up the bed no more, and she may have let herself slip a lil.. But as long as she cooks everyday u r good, and u still love her.

Hopefully Al gets those cooking skills back then

[cheapshotartist]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

[kyh0mpb]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

I bet you feel better now getting that off your chest :mean:

Nah for real this is a dope ass site.

[☠♏ž ჭεĭծեყ ☠]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

CSA YOU GOT A LIL BROWN ON YOUR NOSE :laugh: J/P SORRY COULDN'T RESIST

[Raiderette619]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

sorry CSA we were all too busy eating our Hot biskits to read all this....You are sooooooooooo Not banned! LOL:laugh:

[JRaider17]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

Can we calm down with the Al bashing? First warning...

[Antonio Trotter]

^^ darrius @ J .. it has 2 "r" 's lol

[silver & black]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

I agree...this site is great! I'm so glad everyone decided that this is what we needed to do. This is how a forum SHOULD be. Everyone says what they want to say... and we are all still cool with each other at the end of the day. It really isn't that hard to do. I wonder why some other sites have such a problem with it? :roc:

[Don]

Because here theres no money involved^^...

ITs real Fans. Real Talk. lol

[el boracho]

Fxck AL... i blame everything thats happened these past six years on him...how can you not????

[kyh0mpb]

^^ darrius @ J .. it has 2 "r" 's lol

Damn...good eye.

[BigPrimo]

Great reply BP and I agree, I get worked up over our team at times and need to chill out. I'm just tired of losing and paying stiffs big time money. Are you still in the Corps?
:csa:

Dont trip bro we all get like that. No im out, i did my 4years and a few months. I have actually been out now for about 4years.

I wanted Raji bad but after listening to interviews and seeing more of DHB im going pull for him to make it and have a great career.

[cheapshotartist]

I bet you feel better now getting that off your chest :mean:

Nah for real this is a dope ass site.

I feel a lot better and yes this is a dope site. :csa:

CSA YOU GOT A LIL BROWN ON YOUR NOSE :laugh: J/P SORRY COULDN'T RESIST

Why u hating Lady? :csa:

sorry CSA we were all too busy eating our Hot biskits to read all this....You are sooooooooooo Not banned! LOL:laugh:

Thank you 19 I'm still looking over my shoulder for the Al Davis Protective Agency. :csa:

Can we calm down with the Al bashing? First warning...

I can't help myself. :csa:

I agree...this site is great! I'm so glad everyone decided that this is what we needed to do. This is how a forum SHOULD be. Everyone says what they want to say... and we are all still cool with each other at the end of the day. It really isn't that hard to do. I wonder why some other sites have such a problem with it? :roc:

This is the spot S&B, real fans spiting the truth. :csa:

Because here theres no money involved^^...

ITs real Fans. Real Talk. lol

Word! :csa:

[cheapshotartist]

Dont trip bro we all get like that. No im out, i did my 4years and a few months. I have actually been out now for about 4years.

I wanted Raji bad but after listening to interviews and seeing more of DHB im going pull for him to make it and have a great career.

As fans all we can do is support the team. I wanted Raji also and one of those franchise LT's. :csa:

[JAYEL]

AL gets NO passes from me...period. He gets credit for what he did in the past but he also gets the heat for mess hes turned my favorite team into!

Even punch drunk boxers know when to call it quits...Al needs to do the same thing but that would be admitting he isnt capable of running a successful business in the new era, and we know THAT AINT HAPPENING!!!

[Frantz Presaesno]

Al gave us some real good memories...

Its like the wifey you remember her in her heyday... She was bad as hell.. Used to cook, cleana dn burn a bed everyday like no other..

She may not burn up the bed no more, and she may have let herself slip a lil.. But as long as she cooks everyday u r good, and u still love her.

Not me...

I'm 25. My chances at a glorious moment in the sun after YEARS of mediocre Raider teams, a revolving door of QB's and coaches, and busted draft picks was gangfucked by Tampa Bay's defense.

I've been a fan for 20 years, and in only 3 of those years have I started a season saying "man, these guys are gonna be pretty fucking good this year."

My best memories of Raiders games were mostly centered around the crazy ass dudes and shit I was seeing at a really young age. My first LA Raiders game was the most dangerous and exciting thing I'd been around (until my first punk rock show). Those characters are gone for the most part. You get the costumed fans who are still way into it but have commercialized themselves to the point where it's not really rebellious or punk anymore.

BTW, your point about marriage is exactly why I plan on getting rich and getting a new 18-24 year old girlfriend once or twice a decade.

[Antonio Trotter]

Not me...

I'm 25. My chances at a glorious moment in the sun after YEARS of mediocre Raider teams, a revolving door of QB's and coaches, and busted draft picks was gangfucked by Tampa Bay's defense.

I've been a fan for 20 years, and in only 3 of those years have I started a season saying "man, these guys are gonna be pretty fucking good this year."

My best memories of Raiders games were mostly centered around the crazy ass dudes and shit I was seeing at a really young age. My first LA Raiders game was the most dangerous and exciting thing I'd been around (until my first punk rock show). Those characters are gone for the most part. You get the costumed fans who are still way into it but have commercialized themselves to the point where it's not really rebellious or punk anymore.

BTW, your point about marriage is exactly why I plan on getting rich and getting a new 18-24 year old girlfriend once or twice a decade.


The Tampa SB reference is really unfair, though. We had a good team. A special offense with a opportunistic defense. Problem was we happened to go against the coach from exactly one year prior to that season. He knew our QB inside and out. He knew our plays down to a t. Not really much you can do there....It definitely wasn't due to the re-treads on the team LOL. Not sure if you were stating that it WAS in fact or just enhancing the statement.

Maybe blame Al for sticking with dumb fuck Callahan and thinking he just might NOT see Gruden in a SB. Cutting Callahan loose and starting from square one would have alleviated a pretty fucking looserish Super Bowl altogether by way of not even being there.

You choose what scenario serves you best. Lol. I personally don't know if I gladly accept runner up or humbly avoid the shellacing.

The Raiders are a frustrating team, no question. But I don the jersey with pride. The same way you would show up to some rich and well trained hussies house in a spiked gauntlet to meet her parents. I never been to a Raiders home game, I wouldn't know what the nostalgia of a riotous crowd is like. But I have been to a few Jets games. A steelers game. A giants game and a Philly game.. I was fortunate enough to be at the Philly game in 92 where Todd Marinovich completed his first 6 passes... Unfortunately, the last 3 were to the Eagles.

But being a Raider fan over here in the land of Big Blue and Gang Green is no easy shakes.

But I remember every good game, as well as the bad.

Football is a great sport. I put it a close second to baseball as baseball is my true passion.But in watching other teams play.. Great teams like The Rams Greatest Show On Turf, The Montana Era Niners and the Young era.

The perennial defensive powerhouse that Ravens are.

Jim Kelly and the no huddle Bills.

Boomers one hit wonder Bengals w/ Woods and Brooks.

The Cowboys Dynasty

The Steelers .. I truly envy the fucking Steelers...

But still, id rather watch a Raider loss than any of these teams win..

And in regards to getting rich and keeping a stable of young bizzles.... that ship has clearly sailed for me...

But I'm still doing it well broke as hell lol...



JK. (That's my disclaimer due to my "contractual obligation")

[Frantz Presaesno]

The Tampa SB reference is really unfair, though. We had a good team. A special offense with a opportunistic defense. Problem was we happened to go against the coach from exactly one year prior to that season. He knew our QB inside and out. He knew our plays down to a t. Not really much you can do there....It definitely wasn't due to the re-treads on the team LOL. Not sure if you were stating that it WAS in fact or just enhancing the statement.

Nope. I'm not mad about losing the SB, I'm saying that's my highest moment as a Raiders fan. That's the peak of an otherwise mediocre period.

Maybe blame Al for sticking with dumb fuck Callahan and thinking he just might NOT see Gruden in a SB. Cutting Callahan loose and starting from square one would have alleviated a pretty fucking looserish Super Bowl altogether by way of not even being there.

You choose what scenario serves you best. Lol. I personally don't know if I gladly accept runner up or humbly avoid the shellacing.

Everything about that season is unexplainable. Jerry Rice and Tim Brown turned into humble possession receivers, Rich Gannon turned into Joe Montana, Charlie Garner had jukes like Marcus Allen, Phillip Buchanan looked like the 2nd coming of Lester Hayes (until he got hurt), John Parella played like the white Warren Sapp... and that's just the 2002 Raiders. That may have been the weirdest season in NFL history if you look at some of the other shit that went down in 02. Hell, the Super Bowl was John Gruden vs. Bill Callahan..

The Raiders are a frustrating team, no question. But I don the jersey with pride.

No reason not to. Teams aren't political parties, you should stick to them regardless of ideological differences (unless they're straight up religious like the Colorado Rockies).

The same way you would show up to some rich and well trained hussies house in a spiked gauntlet to meet her parents.

I wish I was black metal enough to rock gauntlets. I always dressed more punk than metal growing up.

I never been to a Raiders home game, I wouldn't know what the nostalgia of a riotous crowd is like. But I have been to a few Jets games. A steelers game. A giants game and a Philly game.. I was fortunate enough to be at the Philly game in 92 where Todd Marinovich completed his first 6 passes... Unfortunately, the last 3 were to the Eagles.

That to me will always be the difference between the home fans and the out of town fans: as much as you love the team, it's not part of your culture. That's not to say some people are "better" or "more deserving" of fandom (hell, I'm saying this to a guy from NY), but man, when that team is as much a part of every day conversation as "how's business," it changes the way you look at them.

I'll be real with you: I feel cultureless in Oakland. I loved the danger of being around legit crazy dudes doing legit crazy shit. It wasn't always pretty but it was real as fuck. My brain couldn't handle it at the time, but it prepared me for a lot of things that would happen to me later. When I started getting into punk, it's like the rebellion was already there, just begging for a way to manifest itself. This family friendly environment is just not what I'm used to.

Last time I was in Oakland was that garbage San Diego game where we blew the halftime lead. Remember when Cornell Green cost the Raiders the 4th and 1 touchdown in the 2nd with that shitty penalty? I screamed "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and a bunch of people looked offended. One guy covered his kids' ears. Really? At a Raiders game?

Right now, I'd actually say Chargers games are more like old Raiders games than modern day Raiders games. That's some sad shit right there.

But being a Raider fan over here in the land of Big Blue and Gang Green is no easy shakes.

I feel your pain. While it was only for a year, I have been a Dodgers fan in San Francisco. If you'd like an example of my typical day (when I decided to wear a Dodgers shirt, not often), throw on some Red Sox gear and do a few laps around Brooklyn.

But I remember every good game, as well as the bad.

Football is a great sport. I put it a close second to baseball as baseball is my true passion.But in watching other teams play.. Great teams like The Rams Greatest Show On Turf, The Montana Era Niners and the Young era.

The perennial defensive powerhouse that Ravens are.

Jim Kelly and the no huddle Bills.

Boomers one hit wonder Bengals w/ Woods and Brooks.

The Cowboys Dynasty

The Steelers .. I truly envy the fucking Steelers...

But still, id rather watch a Raider loss than any of these teams win..

And in regards to getting rich and keeping a stable of young bizzles.... that ship has clearly sailed for me...

But I'm still doing it well broke as hell lol...



JK. (That's my disclaimer due to my "contractual obligation")

Your quote about baseball stuck me, because it's my first passion too. I played from a single-digit age through senior year and went to Dodgers games all the time. They were there for me through every major aspect of my life. Like how I said before that the Raiders were part of every day conversations I'd watch adults have... now I'm an adult and the Dodgers are part of every day conversations I have. Now that I think back through the years, I can pinpoint moments when I was 12, chilling in my room with Operation Ivy records on my headphones with the Dodgers on in the background doing my homework, or chilling with my friends smoking a blunt, or just on some hoochie's dad's TV when I was going to pick her up, and I realize this team is simply a part of my culture.

It puts what I said about culture into perspective. Your football team wasn't nearby but your baseball team was, and I imagine that helped boost your passion for the sport.

As it is, you go to a house in any Latino neighborhood in LA and there's a chance you'll find plenty of die hard Raiders fans, but a lot of those peeps have replaced their passion for the Raiders with passion for the Dodgers. When the team had a big attendance jump for no real particular reason, the big joke was that converted Raiders fans had finally come around. Last time I was at my boy's place in Highland Park, we kicked around and shot the shit about the Dodgers, and I realized if the Raiders had stayed in LA we'd be talking about them. I'm sure it's no different than any Italian barbershop around NY with old wise guys rapping about the Yankees (or any dirty establishment full of classless drunk cabbie types talking about the Mets). It's what comes naturally because it's right there.

When it's ingrained, it's not just something you're a "fan" of, and that's what being a Raiders fan feels like these days. It changes from something that's just a part of you to something that's a hobby, no different than guys who build model airplanes or go sport fishing. I see a lot of Raiders fans from outside Oakland and how they act, and I can't help but say "ya know, despite the thousands you've spent on gear, tickets, grill supplies, beer, flags, etc., and despite the thousands of message board hours you've logged, or Raider myspace friends you have, the Raiders could fold tomorrow and eventually you'd just find another hobby and not miss the Raiders much." My hope is the last of this dying breed (the Raider fan "ice age" began about 12 games into the 2003 season) will be gone right before we get good... so like 2015 or so.

Raiders fans used to be the fans you didn't want in your stadium. They'd show up, party, beat up your fans, break into your cars, and celebrate a win by smashing beer bottles and shooting off fireworks. I want that back. I want people to fear Raiders fans again. Fuck comfort, that shit's no fun anyway. I want people to be scared to put on that opposing jersey and walk into the stadium. I want angry people. Fuck apathy! I saw some pictures of Raiders fans parading into New Orleans this year and it looked like the Clampets wearing Silver & Black. If the team was any good, Bourbon Street would have looked like Bush ignored the hurricane for 2 months instead of 2 days.

That was long. Fuck, I need to stop posting after too much weed.

BTW, the ship never sails. We got 70 year old men getting road head from 20 year old blondies in LA. They say money doesn't buy happiness, but what's not "happy" about that?

[Antonio Trotter]

Nope. I'm not mad about losing the SB, I'm saying that's my highest moment as a Raiders fan. That's the peak of an otherwise mediocre period.

I was 7 when they won the SB in the 83 season.. Sorry that we can't share the bragging rights. Not that it would make the ultimate suckage sting any less..



Everything about that season is unexplainable. Jerry Rice and Tim Brown turned into humble possession receivers, Rich Gannon turned into Joe Montana, Charlie Garner had jukes like Marcus Allen, Phillip Buchanan looked like the 2nd coming of Lester Hayes (until he got hurt), John Parella played like the white Warren Sapp... and that's just the 2002 Raiders. That may have been the weirdest season in NFL history if you look at some of the other shit that went down in 02. Hell, the Super Bowl was John Gruden vs. Bill Callahan..


I was so confident we were going to win that SB. But something in the back of my mind, wayyy in the corner was telling me that Tampa 2 was going to spank us good.

It really was pretty simple.. Ultimate offense vs. Ultimate Defense. Both can win, but if my chips are on the table, I am always betting on a stifling D.


No reason not to. Teams aren't political parties, you should stick to them regardless of ideological differences (unless they're straight up religious like the Colorado Rockies).


Dan O'Dowd is a nutjob, I will say that much. And to this day I will put the coke sniffing, scotch downing and wife beating thugs that the 86' Mets were against any All Rockies team, anyday. Even though the Rockies never won a World Series and probably will not in the foreseeable future. It would be nice to see some drugged out athletes beat up on some bible thumpin' house boys.


I wish I was black metal enough to rock gauntlets. I always dressed more punk than metal growing up.

Nothing gets a chicks panties wet like some Tormentor...


That to me will always be the difference between the home fans and the out of town fans: as much as you love the team, it's not part of your culture. That's not to say some people are "better" or "more deserving" of fandom (hell, I'm saying this to a guy from NY), but man, when that team is as much a part of every day conversation as "how's business," it changes the way you look at them.

The one thing I will say about this.... And I am sure you will agree. One team, if any in all of professional sports has a wider fan base than the Raiders, I don't know of them.

And I think in a way, a fan's mettle is tested even MORE because of the heckling.. The NON STOP heckling, lol. Let's just say for the last 7 years I would have rather woke up Monday mornings, Sept. - Jan. and been waterboarded than to come into work. I can take it from the local Jets and Jints. But the WORST was from the dickriding, fall off the horse Cowboy fans.

I'll be real with you: I feel cultureless in Oakland. I loved the danger of being around legit crazy dudes doing legit crazy shit. It wasn't always pretty but it was real as fuck. My brain couldn't handle it at the time, but it prepared me for a lot of things that would happen to me later. When I started getting into punk, it's like the rebellion was already there, just begging for a way to manifest itself. This family friendly environment is just not what I'm used to.

I'm cool with some folks.. I have only one family, though. But football game crowds aside. I am an asshole in general. I actually pride myself on that.

Last time I was in Oakland was that garbage San Diego game where we blew the halftime lead. Remember when Cornell Green cost the Raiders the 4th and 1 touchdown in the 2nd with that shitty penalty? I screamed "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and a bunch of people looked offended. One guy covered his kids' ears. Really? At a Raiders game?

Right now, I'd actually say Chargers games are more like old Raiders games than modern day Raiders games. That's some sad shit right there.

Very sad shit.. And I am just going off your word. But I hope that isn't true.



I feel your pain. While it was only for a year, I have been a Dodgers fan in San Francisco. If you'd like an example of my typical day (when I decided to wear a Dodgers shirt, not often), throw on some Red Sox gear and do a few laps around Brooklyn.

I'd no sooner trot around Brooklyn in a thong... But depending on which section you go to in Brooklyn, specifically Park Slope, Sunset Park and Fort Green/Flatbush where there is a heavy dominican population. You will see TONS of Red Sox hats... which I will assume to be changing soon as the only noteworthy Dominican left on the squad is Big papi...

Speaking of Dominican baseball players..... How fucking SICK is Hanley Ramirez??? Best SS in MLB IMO, hands down.



Your quote about baseball stuck me, because it's my first passion too. I played from a single-digit age through senior year and went to Dodgers games all the time. They were there for me through every major aspect of my life. Like how I said before that the Raiders were part of every day conversations I'd watch adults have... now I'm an adult and the Dodgers are part of every day conversations I have. Now that I think back through the years, I can pinpoint moments when I was 12, chilling in my room with Operation Ivy records on my headphones with the Dodgers on in the background doing my homework, or chilling with my friends smoking a blunt, or just on some hoochie's dad's TV when I was going to pick her up, and I realize this team is simply a part of my culture.

I too, played since I was 6.. Came from a baseball family. The one thing about baseball I always separated from football and basketball was the "smell" of the game. The air of spring/summer. The smell of the infield sand and grass on your uniform. The baseball "dirty" was such a unique dirtiness. Football couldn't compare to it IMO.

Best sport ever... As simple as the sport is, some people just cannot conceptualize the game. You HAVE to absolutely know the history of the game. The players on the field and behind the scenes. The controversy behind the sport. The terminology. You have to take the nostalgia in.

It's just a beautiful game..

It puts what I said about culture into perspective. Your football team wasn't nearby but your baseball team was, and I imagine that helped boost your passion for the sport.


I am a lifelong Met fan, I owe that to my Grandfather actually. I bleed for west coast teams in football and basketball (Blazers).. I suppose I would have chose a west coast team, or maybe not, had I not been bred into the games at Shea...

And honestly, talk to me about hard times as a fan... Being a MET fan...Believe it or not... Being a Raider fans is 9889745987598 x's easier then being a Met fan... Mets fans get it bad dude



When it's ingrained, it's not just something you're a "fan" of, and that's what being a Raiders fan feels like these days. It changes from something that's just a part of you to something that's a hobby, no different than guys who build model airplanes or go sport fishing. I see a lot of Raiders fans from outside Oakland and how they act, and I can't help but say "ya know, despite the thousands you've spent on gear, tickets, grill supplies, beer, flags, etc., and despite the thousands of message board hours you've logged, or Raider myspace friends you have, the Raiders could fold tomorrow and eventually you'd just find another hobby and not miss the Raiders much." My hope is the last of this dying breed (the Raider fan "ice age" began about 12 games into the 2003 season) will be gone right before we get good... so like 2015 or so.

I feel hope. Not because I am a natural optimist by any stretch of the imagination. But because I just long for the days of GOOD Raider football... Watching the Raiders play, the way they run and tackle just LOOKS different on TV to me than other teams.. (Choose any variation of joke you please - I know that one is EASY)... And I mean when they play good or bad. lol

[Antonio Trotter]

Raiders fans used to be the fans you didn't want in your stadium. They'd show up, party, beat up your fans, break into your cars, and celebrate a win by smashing beer bottles and shooting off fireworks. I want that back. I want people to fear Raiders fans again. Fuck comfort, that shit's no fun anyway. I want people to be scared to put on that opposing jersey and walk into the stadium. I want angry people. Fuck apathy! I saw some pictures of Raiders fans parading into New Orleans this year and it looked like the Clampets wearing Silver & Black. If the team was any good, Bourbon Street would have looked like Bush ignored the hurricane for 2 months instead of 2 days.

This can be applied to society in general... Why are people such pussies now?? What happened to earning respect?? I see it even in kids that are growing up in this generation.. You were never a "friend" by default. I usually hated a lil kid til we fought. After we scrapped it up, you give your respects and then we were cool.

People say violence is no good. Nor is bullying. But nobody ever frowns upon an intellectual bully who outwits someone to fork over their blood and sweat. If I outmuscle somebody and mug them, Im a thug. It's bullshit... Let's have the best of both worlds.. I am fairly intelligent dude that would love to punch a motherfucker in the face for his money.. Unfortunately there isnt enough room and/or I am not talented enough to fight professionally. So let me stick a lower bracket on the food chain lol.

Ok, enough of that rant.



That was long. Fuck, I need to stop posting after too much weed.

You picked the right profession my dude... Weed and writing are like bagels and cream cheese.

BTW, the ship never sails. We got 70 year old men getting road head from 20 year old blondies in LA. They say money doesn't buy happiness, but what's not "happy" about that?

Quoted from Nas "Money is the root of evil but it makes you happy"

[Frantz Presaesno]

It really was pretty simple.. Ultimate offense vs. Ultimate Defense. Both can win, but if my chips are on the table, I am always betting on a stifling D.

That goes without saying. I think it's why it's easy to envy the Steelers: you can't score on them, and they make the big plays on offense late EVERY TIME. They were the most exciting team in football last year. The game vs. Dallas was my favorite NFL game all year.

Dan O'Dowd is a nutjob, I will say that much. And to this day I will put the coke sniffing, scotch downing and wife beating thugs that the 86' Mets were against any All Rockies team, anyday. Even though the Rockies never won a World Series and probably will not in the foreseeable future. It would be nice to see some drugged out athletes beat up on some bible thumpin' house boys.

I read "The Bad Guys Won" (actually met Jeff Pearlman a few weeks ago) and loved it. Hell yes, I'm taking the 86 Mets over the All Rockies. How the hell are Dante Bichette, Vinny Castilla and Todd Helton going to fuck with 86 Doc, 86 Darryl, 86 Lenny Dykstra, 86 Gary Carter... dude young Kevin Mitchell coming off the bench before he won the MVP with the Giants! That was a squad.

The one thing I will say about this.... And I am sure you will agree. One team, if any in all of professional sports has a wider fan base than the Raiders, I don't know of them.

New York Yankees. There are probably 10-15 stadiums that don't turn into Yankees home games when they come to town. The Raiders fan base is wide, but overrated in terms of size. Even when the games are "sold out," there are a lot of empty seats. I think when they went back to the Bay Area, their fanbase had skipped a generation. When you move your product to Los Angeles and Joe Cool is the big star across the Bay, you're not holding onto much.

I think the term RAIDER NATION became popular again because the new, larger generation of Raiders fans were all kids from Los Angeles who had dad's who didn't stop rooting for the Raiders when they took off. The Raiders got more popular here after they left! Raiders fans are #3 in "most loyal fanbase in Los Angeles" on the "LA Sports Lists." So suddenly, the Raiders were holding down the 2nd largest market in the country. Want to guess how Al made money off television revenue when the Raiders didn't sell out home games in Oakland?

And I think in a way, a fan's mettle is tested even MORE because of the heckling.. The NON STOP heckling, lol. Let's just say for the last 7 years I would have rather woke up Monday mornings, Sept. - Jan. and been waterboarded than to come into work. I can take it from the local Jets and Jints. But the WORST was from the dickriding, fall off the horse Cowboy fans.

Raiders fans don't get heckled in LA because of reputation. Simply put, if you see a group of dudes in Raiders gear in LA, they're probably not as friendly as the dudes in the pictures. The only kids that talk shit are college kids from OC or SD who like the Chargers, but they won't straight up talk shit for fear of getting shanked.

I'm cool with some folks.. I have only one family, though. But football game crowds aside. I am an asshole in general. I actually pride myself on that.

Yep. I've just accepted that I'll always be a shit talker.

Very sad shit.. And I am just going off your word. But I hope that isn't true.

I'm one of the few who will tell it like it is. Raiders/Chargers games in SD are WILD. It's like being at a live gang war. You gotta understand something: SD has been "little brother" to LA forever. They're like a "side destination" that you take a day trip or one nighter to when you've got a 7 day family vacation in LA. The local SD media exploits the shit out of this sort of weird inferiority complex. When the Raiders left LA, Raiders fans started going to SD once a year and DOMINATING the place. SD became "Oakland South," and even Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton, the biggest and most annoying San Diego honk on the radio, had a yearly "will it be a Raider or Charger home game this year?" This made SD fans very angry, so when the Chargers got good again and the Raiders fell off the map, it was time for revenge. It's basically drunk cholos vs drunk cholos, flatbrim brahs vs drunk cholos, drunk white dudes who grew up with cholos so they too are cholos vs more drunk cholos, etc. etc. all game. It's not as crazy as an old LA Raiders game but it's BAD.

Put it this way: I work with JT The Brick, and he came and told me that he does a "Raider fan in away tailgates" thing for Raiders TV, and San Diego is the only place he needs security to do it.

But still, there was a time where the Chargers merch guy would walk through the tailgates selling shit and be booed mercilessly and sometimes have shit tossed at him.

I'd no sooner trot around Brooklyn in a thong... But depending on which section you go to in Brooklyn, specifically Park Slope, Sunset Park and Fort Green/Flatbush where there is a heavy dominican population. You will see TONS of Red Sox hats... which I will assume to be changing soon as the only noteworthy Dominican left on the squad is Big papi...

Speaking of Dominican baseball players..... How fucking SICK is Hanley Ramirez??? Best SS in MLB IMO, hands down.

You mean the ghost of Big Papi, dude is done. They should become Dodgers fans, we've got the best Dominican hitter to date.

Hanley kinda sucks at defense but man who gives a shit. He looks like he could have like 3 or 4 40/40 seasons and finish his career with Griffey numbers. I wish I'd stolen a raft and been lost at sea, only to be adopted by a Dominican family at age 5.

I too, played since I was 6.. Came from a baseball family. The one thing about baseball I always separated from football and basketball was the "smell" of the game. The air of spring/summer. The smell of the infield sand and grass on your uniform. The baseball "dirty" was such a unique dirtiness. Football couldn't compare to it IMO.

Best sport ever... As simple as the sport is, some people just cannot conceptualize the game. You HAVE to absolutely know the history of the game. The players on the field and behind the scenes. The controversy behind the sport. The terminology. You have to take the nostalgia in.

It's just a beautiful game..

That's true. It gets better the more you learn too. I really buy into Bill James' system and think it re-packaged the game for me. Going from years of playing to no longer playing, I had to find ways to make the game rack my brain.

I am a lifelong Met fan, I owe that to my Grandfather actually. I bleed for west coast teams in football and basketball (Blazers).. I suppose I would have chose a west coast team, or maybe not, had I not been bred into the games at Shea...

And honestly, talk to me about hard times as a fan... Being a MET fan...Believe it or not... Being a Raider fans is 9889745987598 x's easier then being a Met fan... Mets fans get it bad dude

The Mets find the worst ways to lose. The Dodgers aren't easy either. This is another team that disappointed me for years, especially when Rupert Murdoch owned them. Last year's playoffs were the best it's been for me, and that's sad. This is the first year I've EVER said "this team has a real chance at taking it all the way."

I feel hope. Not because I am a natural optimist by any stretch of the imagination. But because I just long for the days of GOOD Raider football... Watching the Raiders play, the way they run and tackle just LOOKS different on TV to me than other teams.. (Choose any variation of joke you please - I know that one is EASY)... And I mean when they play good or bad. lol

Nah I agree, they don't even look like an NFL team out there. A couple of pieces aren't going to change this shit. They need a culture change starting at the top.

[Tor]

I LOVE THIS SITE!!!! We just went off on Al and not one word from any Mods, no one got banned and all hell did not break loose. This is how a forum is suppose to be run, as long as no rules are being broken let the members speak their minds. Thank God and all of us for RaiderOutlawz.com.
:csa:

This is a great site to be a part of, and I don't throw around those words freely. You never seen me ball washing RKA or RF, like some people here did. I could see right through their bullshit. There was a time when I felt good about being a member @ RF.net, but that was when it was a small community. I hope ROC never gets to a point where I don't know half of the members personally. Keep it tight. KEEP IT REAL!

HAIL TO MY FELLOW RAIDER OUTLAWS!..

[bigjayboogie]

Nah I agree, they don't even look like an NFL team out there. A couple of pieces aren't going to change this shit. They need a culture change starting at the top.

That's where I am at...I just want us to put a competent NFL level team at all stages of the game. WE DON'T look like an NFL team out there in stages...till the last part of the year and even then it was just wrong....how many false start penalties did the D get against the Jets?

I blame this 100% on coaching....Cable was not my choice AT ALL...but he has atleast convinced Al that we need to get hard working, character (for the most part) guys that want to learn and get better. He has assembled a coaching staff that have a PROVEN track record of improving bad teams.

Our problems are not scheme and at this point...probably are not even personel (atleast if you don't include wide receiver).We need a coach that will make sure that the best players are on the field and running the plays the way they are supposed to be run. That Jamarcus has an offensive gameplan that plays to his strengths and that or defense has a scheme that is adapted to who we are playing...standing up our LB at the line is going to really help us on our pass rush...I think Cable also talked about standing up a DE on 1st and 2nd and putting a hand in the dirt on 3rd down....that's why we are drafting these tweener DEs...

Let's remember...Cable inherited this mess last year. He now has the staff HE wanted and is installing the offense and defense that HE wants...this team is now a reflection of him..so I throw everything out of last year...you can't install a new offense and defense in the middle of the season...that was Kiffin's playbook with kiffin's offensive coaches...they're all gone now....let's see what Cable's crew can do.

I didn't like picks he made...but I understand what he is thinking now..there is a process here. Remember, there's not just ONE WAY to be successful in this league. Many people wanna go to the 3-4 because the PATS run it...or go to an offense of hot reads because the PATS do it. Yes...the PATS do all of those things well..but it's not the scheme...it's because the coach effectively teaches his offensive and defensive philosophy to his coaching staff and his players...when we are able to do that here...we will be successful.

[bigjayboogie]

This is a great site to be a part of, and I don't throw around those words freely. You never seen me ball washing RKA or RF, like some people here did. I could see right through their bullshit. There was a time when I felt good about being a member @ RF.net, but that was when it was a small community. I hope ROC never gets to a point where I don't know half of the members personally. Keep it tight. KEEP IT REAL!

HAIL TO MY FELLOW RAIDER OUTLAWS!..

I like this site because it's small and no bullshit threads about how so and so and such and such got released...let's go get em...and the person has no idea how they will fit in..just that they are off a good team...

[Frantz Presaesno]

I like this site because it's small and no bullshit threads about how so and so and such and such got released...let's go get em...and the person has no idea how they will fit in..just that they are off a good team...

Oh there have been a few of those...

[East Bay King]

Thank you. Moss did lay down. He's a piece of shit for not giving effort. Barry Sanders played on bad teams and still continued to make plays. If the offense is not all about him, he pouts. He is not interested in making anyone better but himself. He quit on his team. Al's checks never bounced did they? Yes, he did get played. But Al has tried. He went out and got one of the best recievers he could find. He just forgot the guy had no heart and only wants to go to a good team. Be part of history or go out and help make history. Him on the patriots is like Clemens going to the Yankees or Payton going to the Heat. It is not o.k. to take plays off. That may sound like Pop Warner shit to some, but it's the way it's supposed to be.

[BHJake]

Last time I was in Oakland was that garbage San Diego game where we blew the halftime lead. Remember when Cornell Green cost the Raiders the 4th and 1 touchdown in the 2nd with that shitty penalty? I screamed "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?" and a bunch of people looked offended. One guy covered his kids' ears. Really? At a Raiders game?





Very sad shit.. And I am just going off your word. But I hope that isn't true.




So sad but so true. This subject lights a fire under my ass like no other. I could talk about this shit for days.

It has changed greatly and it will never be the same. The powers that be are winning the fight against Raider fans being Raider fans and the whole scene is unfortunately a much watered down version of what used to go down.

edit: I'll just leave it at that and say I feel bad for any real Raider fans that didn't have the chance to experience the Coliseum during it's prime. Just like I feel ripped off for never being able to see a game in L.A. I've heard stories that make me salivate but it'll never happen and never be like that again.

Fuckin sucks.

[Uncle Nook Nook]

Hmm, the game I went to in '07 had it's fair share of cussing and nobody looked offended or anything. even got to see shit get thrown at a chiefs fan in a LJ uni for a couple of minutes, then get spit in his face by some drunk dude before he finally got thrown out of the stadium.

[Frantz Presaesno]

Hmm, the game I went to in '07 had it's fair share of cussing and nobody looked offended or anything. even got to see shit get thrown at a chiefs fan in a LJ uni for a couple of minutes, then get spit in his face by some drunk dude before he finally got thrown out of the stadium.

Back in the day that jersey would have been ripped up and thrown on the field and that fan would have been told to GTFO.

[bigjayboogie]

Back in the day that jersey would have been ripped up and thrown on the field and that fan would have been told to GTFO.

fan conduct policy took care of that...I know at the Raider vs. Charger games no matter what side you were on you had atleast 4 cops on you if you started any shit...they're not playing anymore....and dudes that cut up are actually getting jail time now...

[or24]

Bringing in Moss was not a bad move. It turned bad when we brought back Shell and Walsh who couldnt implement a modern day offense. Moss was fed up just like some of us and im not apologizing for his lack of effort but in his 1st year with us he was making plays game in and game out.

[cheapshotartist]

That's where I am at...I just want us to put a competent NFL level team at all stages of the game. WE DON'T look like an NFL team out there in stages...till the last part of the year and even then it was just wrong....how many false start penalties did the D get against the Jets?

I blame this 100% on coaching....Cable was not my choice AT ALL...but he has atleast convinced Al that we need to get hard working, character (for the most part) guys that want to learn and get better. He has assembled a coaching staff that have a PROVEN track record of improving bad teams.

Our problems are not scheme and at this point...probably are not even personel (atleast if you don't include wide receiver).We need a coach that will make sure that the best players are on the field and running the plays the way they are supposed to be run. That Jamarcus has an offensive gameplan that plays to his strengths and that or defense has a scheme that is adapted to who we are playing...standing up our LB at the line is going to really help us on our pass rush...I think Cable also talked about standing up a DE on 1st and 2nd and putting a hand in the dirt on 3rd down....that's why we are drafting these tweener DEs...

Let's remember...Cable inherited this mess last year. He now has the staff HE wanted and is installing the offense and defense that HE wants...this team is now a reflection of him..so I throw everything out of last year...you can't install a new offense and defense in the middle of the season...that was Kiffin's playbook with kiffin's offensive coaches...they're all gone now....let's see what Cable's crew can do.

I didn't like picks he made...but I understand what he is thinking now..there is a process here. Remember, there's not just ONE WAY to be successful in this league. Many people wanna go to the 3-4 because the PATS run it...or go to an offense of hot reads because the PATS do it. Yes...the PATS do all of those things well..but it's not the scheme...it's because the coach effectively teaches his offensive and defensive philosophy to his coaching staff and his players...when we are able to do that here...we will be successful.

"Cable inherited this mess last year. He now has the staff HE wanted and is installing the offense and defense that HE wants...this team is now a reflection of him."

As long as Al is calling the shots I don't think that Cable hired his people. I think Al had a bunch of coaches in mind and Cable got to choose from Al's list. Cable will be running Al's offense & defense with "some" of his input. The draft was straight up Al Davis regardless to what Cable says. Al Davis is still calling all the shots.
:csa:

[cheapshotartist]

Bringing in Moss was not a bad move. It turned bad when we brought back Shell and Walsh who couldnt implement a modern day offense. Moss was fed up just like some of us and im not apologizing for his lack of effort but in his 1st year with us he was making plays game in and game out.

The truth! There was no way in hell that Moss was going to catch a lot of balls in that 1970's offense. Moss is still a b!tch but I can understand why he did what he did.
:csa:

[Antonio Trotter]

Another reason why I aint mad at Moss is this...

That locker room had some holdovers from the Gruden era. And im sure some sentiments that were whispered through the locker room were felt by everybody.

They were obviously tired of losing, they also didn't like what was happening. Moss was just speaking for everybody IMO.

I think Moss is a bitch too like unc cheap said. But shit, he wasnt the only one tired of shit. He stood for something.

[Antonio Trotter]

Moss wasn't a cancer... Moss just decided he wasn't going to let "cancer" ruin his career. He was PLAYING for cancer.

Because if Moss was cancer, look what he did the VERY next season in NE....

Mmmmhmmm, thats some good cancer..

Makes you wish we had some cancer back on the squad , dont it?

[cheapshotartist]

Moss wasn't a cancer... Moss just decided he wasn't going to let "cancer" ruin his career. He was PLAYING for cancer.

Because if Moss was cancer, look what he did the VERY next season in NE....

Mmmmhmmm, thats some good cancer..

Makes you wish we had some cancer back on the squad , dont it?

I know what you saying Bump Moss has some mad skillz but his talent was wasted when he was here. :csa:

[Antonio Trotter]

I know what you saying Bump Moss has some mad skillz but his talent was wasted when he was here. :csa:


lol, the Raiders? wasting talent?

nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Buck Rogers]

We knew damn well Moss had a checkered past before we brought him in. We knew he can be a surly guy and if the team sucks and the coaches are fuckin clueless, he's probably not going to respond in the best manner.

I can't possibly condone his actions because it's never right to mail it in, but it's not the least bit surprising with how everything unfolded. You team up a volatile guy like Moss with yahoos like Collins, Brooks, Walter, Shell, Turner, B&B etc, you're not going to get good results.

[JAYEL]

....remember it all like yesterday.

we got moss! Collins to Moss all year!!! Championship!!!!!

:huh:

[Tor]

Fuck Randy and all his apologists. He dropped 2 td passes in Oakland. If he wasn't so busy pouting and taking plays off he could have made this team better. Instead he decided that his ego was bigger than the team. I don't care how bad our team was or how disfunctional our organization was, you don't quit on your team, PERIOD!

I was hoping that someone from our D would deliver a death blow to him last season. I'm really surprised that so many of you are taking up for that punk...

[East Bay King]

I can't give someone a pass because they play for a shitty team. He got paid to be a professional. It sounds like rah-rah Pop Warner stuff, but Moss should have been a mentor to the young recievers, a leader in the lockerroom, and someone who led by example. He was none of this. He's too busy pushing his juice bars and Nascar Truck team to make anyone better. All he's gotta do in New England is show up and catch the ball. In Oakland, we needed him to do more.

[East Bay King]

Some of what you said is legitimate, but Collins managed the Titans fairly well without a big name reciever and got the Panthers to the title game. Shell was not a great coach, but he was far from a yahoo. He's a hall of famer and got them to the playoffs when he had some players on his first go around.

[Boom]

Can someone tell me why is it that when we draft or trade for a player and said player turns out to be a stiff we hate on said player and not the organization? Case in point LT Kwame Harris when we signed him all hell broke loose because we all knew what we were getting. A high paid stiff. When we drafted JaMarcus Russell some Raider fans ( a lot of Raider fans) were besides themselves, calling Russell a bust, stupid, slow, wearing too much bling. Remember when we signed Moss? Same thing. Mike Huff, Deanglo Hall, the list goes on. When ever we signed a stiff the stiff caught hell from the Raider Nation. My question is this why does the person who does the drafting and FA signings get a free pass while the player gets thrown to the dogs? If the person doing the drafting/FA signings did their homework and worked with a GM and their coaching staffs like the rest of the NFL maybe we would have a better prepared team. Maybe we would build our team to be successful and able to compete instead of winning 4 or 5 games a season and then putting all the blame on the Head Coach. In other words why don't we hold the person who calls all the shots responsible for mistake after mistake in the draft? Why is that Raider Nation? If you test drive a bucket and it runs like :shit: and you still buy it and it breaks down whose fault is it? You can't blame the cars salesman because you knew you bought a bucket, right? So why does the person calling all the shots for the Raiders get a free pass when he drafts stiff after stiff? I'm not saying DHB and Mitchell are stiffs what I'm saying is we needed a franchise LT, we needed a young stud DT, we needed a #1 WR and we did not get them or the best WR available. Why don't we hold management responsible for their actions. If you have a competent front office you won't keep making the same mistakes. I'm tired of hearing Al will get it done, when was the last time Al got it done? When was the last time our Raiders played 500 ball? Why does Al keep getting a free pass while our team is slowly sinking? Comments?
:csa:

Because Al don't give a shit what anybody thinks.. Al figures it's his team and he can do anything he wants to do.. Who gonna throw the captain off the ship? There is only one solution

[Boom]

Moss didn't "choke." He had 1,000 yards in his first year with one of the worst QB/OL combinations in the history of football. Did he tank it his 2nd year? Yes. Wouldn't you? The Raiders weren't winning when he didn't tank it that season, and why would you lay out and risk your Hall of Fame career for a 2 win season? Moss is hardly the only star player who's not given a full effort in a lost season because he wanted to make big plays in meaningful games. Trading for Moss was STUPID. We needed OL and a QB and failed to get them.

Al continues to draft players and sign FA's that suck. He continues hiring crony coaches and insisting on a stupid, vanilla defensive scheme. That's his fault.

Yes I would. Regardless, he his being payed to catch the ball. He's a piece of shit in my book

[East Bay King]

Damn right!

[mickyd]

Yes I would. Regardless, he his being payed to catch the ball. He's a piece of shit in my book


And he now is catching the ball....

[silver & black]

Fuck Randy and all his apologists. He dropped 2 td passes in Oakland. If he wasn't so busy pouting and taking plays off he could have made this team better. Instead he decided that his ego was bigger than the team. I don't care how bad our team was or how disfunctional our organization was, you don't quit on your team, PERIOD!

I was hoping that someone from our D would deliver a death blow to him last season. I'm really surprised that so many of you are taking up for that punk...

I can't give someone a pass because they play for a shitty team. He got paid to be a professional. It sounds like rah-rah Pop Warner stuff, but Moss should have been a mentor to the young recievers, a leader in the lockerroom, and someone who led by example. He was none of this. He's too busy pushing his juice bars and Nascar Truck team to make anyone better. All he's gotta do in New England is show up and catch the ball. In Oakland, we needed him to do more.

Yes I would. Regardless, he his being payed to catch the ball. He's a piece of shit in my book
Absolutely!

[Don]

No room for spoiled brats on a blue collar team PERIOD.. I could give a fuck whos fault it is or how bad the coaches are. A bitch is a bitch and all there is to it. Especially for that kind of loot.

[iceman4444]

Can someone tell me why is it that when we draft or trade for a player and said player turns out to be a stiff we hate on said player and not the organization? Case in point LT Kwame Harris when we signed him all hell broke loose because we all knew what we were getting. A high paid stiff. When we drafted JaMarcus Russell some Raider fans ( a lot of Raider fans) were besides themselves, calling Russell a bust, stupid, slow, wearing too much bling. Remember when we signed Moss? Same thing. Mike Huff, Deanglo Hall, the list goes on. When ever we signed a stiff the stiff caught hell from the Raider Nation. My question is this why does the person who does the drafting and FA signings get a free pass while the player gets thrown to the dogs? If the person doing the drafting/FA signings did their homework and worked with a GM and their coaching staffs like the rest of the NFL maybe we would have a better prepared team. Maybe we would build our team to be successful and able to compete instead of winning 4 or 5 games a season and then putting all the blame on the Head Coach. In other words why don't we hold the person who calls all the shots responsible for mistake after mistake in the draft? Why is that Raider Nation? If you test drive a bucket and it runs like :shit: and you still buy it and it breaks down whose fault is it? You can't blame the cars salesman because you knew you bought a bucket, right? So why does the person calling all the shots for the Raiders get a free pass when he drafts stiff after stiff? I'm not saying DHB and Mitchell are stiffs what I'm saying is we needed a franchise LT, we needed a young stud DT, we needed a #1 WR and we did not get them or the best WR available. Why don't we hold management responsible for their actions. If you have a competent front office you won't keep making the same mistakes. I'm tired of hearing Al will get it done, when was the last time Al got it done? When was the last time our Raiders played 500 ball? Why does Al keep getting a free pass while our team is slowly sinking? Comments?
:csa:

The reason is that when they and their agents go to the board and ask for God awful money and then they dont earn it, sorry but they deserve the heat.

Stafford is getting more than Tom Brady! If you want the big bucks, expect the big pressure;

[cheapshotartist]

The reason is that when they and their agents go to the board and ask for God awful money and then they dont earn it, sorry but they deserve the heat.

Stafford is getting more than Tom Brady! If you want the big bucks, expect the big pressure;

No one has a gun to any of the owners heads making them pay this money. If I'm going to pay that type of money I'm going to be really pickey on who I give it to. And If I over pay A stiff whose fault is that?
:csa:

[Antonio Trotter]

No one has a gun to any of the owners heads making them pay this money. If I'm going to pay that type of money I'm going to be really pickey on who I give it to. And If I over pay A stiff whose fault is that?
:csa:

The scouting dept?

The owner HAS to write the check to somebody...... 95% of NFL owners arent football guys.. Nobody ever faults them for drafting stiffs? Why should Al catch more flack than the others?

We dont know if Al is calling the draft picks... Shit, Oakland DOES have a scouting and talent evaluation dept. SOMEBODY is scouting these players.

Al has some say, but us saying how much he has actually is speculation. Al has a team of scouts, he lets them know what he is looking for and its their job to find the players in that mold.

All speculation...

We have had as bad of a 6 years as anybody has had in the league..... But the Raiders have had success in this decade, period. You cannot refute that. When you pair it up to teams who haven't even tasted a Super Bowl loss in 40 + years in this league... Doesn't seem like bad shakes does it??

At what point do we turn to the fans and say that we are acting like a bunch of spoiled bitches?

[cheapshotartist]

The scouting dept?

The owner HAS to write the check to somebody...... 95% of NFL owners arent football guys.. Nobody ever faults them for drafting stiffs? Why should Al catch more flack than the others?

We dont know if Al is calling the draft picks... Shit, Oakland DOES have a scouting and talent evaluation dept. SOMEBODY is scouting these players.

Al has some say, but us saying how much he has actually is speculation. Al has a team of scouts, he lets them know what he is looking for and its their job to find the players in that mold.

All speculation...

We have had as bad of a 6 years as anybody has had in the league..... But the Raiders have had success in this decade, period. You cannot refute that. When you pair it up to teams who haven't even tasted a Super Bowl loss in 40 + years in this league... Doesn't seem like bad shakes does it??

At what point do we turn to the fans and say that we are acting like a bunch of spoiled bitches?

I see what your saying Bump but I don't worry about what the other teams do I'm a Raider fan. If you go back and look at our history most of our top players were not drafted by us. We got them in trades or signed them as FA's. Our draft record is not that good considering the great teams we had in the past. Look at the Chuckey years, Gannon, Wheatly, Garner, Rice, Kennedy, we did not draft these guys.
:csa:

[Buck Rogers]

We have had as bad of a 6 years as anybody has had in the league..... But the Raiders have had success in this decade, period. You cannot refute that. When you pair it up to teams who haven't even tasted a Super Bowl loss in 40 + years in this league... Doesn't seem like bad shakes does it??

At what point do we turn to the fans and say that we are acting like a bunch of spoiled bitches?
Sorry Bump but I can't just say "oh well it could be worse, look at the Lions." When your slogans are Just Win Baby, Committment to Excellence, Team of the Decades etc etc, then you're placing yourself on a higher level. The fact that we're now lumped together with perennial sad-sack losers like the Lions, Cardinals (not anymore I guess) and Bungles is totally unacceptable for a franchise with this type of tradition.

Yeah we had a nice little run at the beginning of the decade but that seems like an eternity ago. Every single decision since then has been the wrong one, from coaching hires to draft picks to free agent signings. You don't top out at 5 wins if you're running a successful team. Now it LOOKS like we're turning the corner, and Tom Cable DOES talk a big game, but I want to see some wins on the field. No moral victories, no thinking we won 100 Superbowls in a row because of a week 17 victory against a Tampa team that quit on it's coach several weeks earlier.

[Antonio Trotter]

Sorry Bump but I can't just say "oh well it could be worse, look at the Lions." When your slogans are Just Win Baby, Committment to Excellence, Team of the Decades etc etc, then you're placing yourself on a higher level. The fact that we're now lumped together with perennial sad-sack losers like the Lions, Cardinals (not anymore I guess) and Bungles is totally unacceptable for a franchise with this type of tradition.

Yeah we had a nice little run at the beginning of the decade but that seems like an eternity ago. Every single decision since then has been the wrong one, from coaching hires to draft picks to free agent signings. You don't top out at 5 wins if you're running a successful team. Now it LOOKS like we're turning the corner, and Tom Cable DOES talk a big game, but I want to see some wins on the field. No moral victories, no thinking we won 100 Superbowls in a row because of a week 17 victory against a Tampa team that quit on it's coach several weeks earlier.

A Slogan is a Slogan.....

Just because you decide to have a moniker , like.... "Guaranteed to Beat that ASS EVERYTIME" doesn't translate to just that. As a professional franchise in sports, you are going to suck at times...

Let's face it, Commitment to Excellence isdefined by Al Davis himself... He is committed to winning, just not by your or my definition.

[Jerseyboy]

because we accept the reality that Al Davis will do whatever the hell he wants with personell, and that will never change.

[or24]

One of the other contants in this losing era of ours is Rob Ryan. You can talk about the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball but this guy was one of the worst playcallers/gameplanners ive ever seen.

The 3-4 didn't work out because we didnt have the talent to plug in but the following year this genius devises a plan to use a nickel base defense! WHO DOES THAT?

We had 5 int's the whole year as a TEAM and were terrible against the run as usual. What kind of results do you expect with that defense?

Since then he has ran a lot of shitty soft zone where we've struggled and has thrown in his brilliant ideas of Dropping Gerard Warren back in coverage or dropping all 11 players back! lmao

I think some people underestimate the difference John Marshall could make.

Our defense is talented in certain areas and just isnt being used peroperly...

[Frantz Presaesno]

One of the other contants in this losing era of ours is Rob Ryan. You can talk about the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball but this guy was one of the worst playcallers/gameplanners ive ever seen.

The 3-4 didn't work out because we didnt have the talent to plug in but the following year this genius devises a plan to use a nickel base defense! WHO DOES THAT?

We had 5 int's the whole year as a TEAM and were terrible against the run as usual. What kind of results do you expect with that defense?

Since then he has ran a lot of shitty soft zone where we've struggled and has thrown in his brilliant ideas of Dropping Gerard Warren back in coverage or dropping all 11 players back! lmao

I think some people underestimate the difference John Marshall could make.

Our defense is talented in certain areas and just isnt being used peroperly...

Rob Ryan was running Al's defense. John Marshall runs the same fucking thing!

[or24]

Rob Ryan was running Al's defense. John Marshall runs the same fucking thing!
Al wanted to run the 3-4? Al wanted to run a nickel defense? Al wanted to run soft zone? Maybe Im wrong but as far as I know everyone says al loves to run man coverage, bump and run, corners on an island, etc. I wish we ran man coverage. Instead our genius DC decides to drop 7, 8, or even 11 guys in coverage!

We had more success running man press even if we werent blitzing a lot. I'm tired of seeing zone coverage. Our players do not read and react well. The only 2 players I feel that excel in zone are Nnamdi and Kirk.

[JRaider17]

I don't expect the D to change that much....hope I'm wrong but doubt it.

[Frantz Presaesno]

Al wanted to run the 3-4? Al wanted to run a nickel defense? Al wanted to run soft zone? Maybe Im wrong but as far as I know everyone says al loves to run man coverage, bump and run, corners on an island, etc. I wish we ran man coverage. Instead our genius DC decides to drop 7, 8, or even 11 guys in coverage!

We had more success running man press even if we werent blitzing a lot. I'm tired of seeing zone coverage. Our players do not read and react well. The only 2 players I feel that excel in zone are Nnamdi and Kirk.

Ryan wanted a 3-4 but Al kept giving him 4-3 personnel. That obviously failed, so they went back to Al's way. That failed too, except it failed with Al's personnel.

[cheapshotartist]

I don't expect the D to change that much....hope I'm wrong but doubt it.

How can it change when we are still starting the same stiffs? :csa:

[silver & black]

How can it change when we are still starting the same stiffs? :csa:
:cheers:

[bigjayboogie]

yeah according to mini camps..they're running the same vanilla 4-3 but they are blitzing the lb'ers now...but they did that last year in practice and pre-season..just not in the game...